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To Slow Global Warming, We Need Nuclear Power (Op-Ed)

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Re: To Slow Global Warming, We Need Nuclear Power (Op-Ed)

#241

Post by hvidgaard »

sdoering wrote: post #222
paulddraper wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear waste storage is only a problem because we want it to be a problem. Once we actually need alternative energy, we'll figure out that out real quick.

Yeah. Because we didn't already have 60+ years of time with actual smart people trying to find a solution. I am all in for nuclear and much more so for doing ground work and heavily investing in research on nuclear recyclability. But doing the math this will not get as anywhere. We would non the less need to add 1GW of power to the grid nearly every day to fulfill projected demand over the next generation. So this wo…

Storage and recycling of spend fuel rods are not a problem. We have not all that much waste, and plenty of places to put it. And breeder reactors seems to be able to convert part of it into usable fuel again.

I agree that it is a temporary solution, but it's the best we got until we figure out how to store energy efficiently, and generate truly renewable energy.

I'm sceptical of wind, because it produce a large amount of waste (rotorblade composite) that is only recently started to be recycled, and the question of what to do with the recycled material have to my knowledge not been answered yet.

Solar is still dependend on a few rare earth minerals, but some promesing alternatives are actively being researched.

Re: To Slow Global Warming, We Need Nuclear Power (Op-Ed)

#243

Post by Twisell »

jsilence wrote: post #231
Twisell wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except people also forget that renewables' are also highly subsidized. You can't use a double standard here. And cost should anyway be the least of concern as global warming costs will be higher no matter what if we fail to control it.

"renewables' are also highly subsidized" Only this not true any more. Over the last decade Solar has become price competitive sans subsidies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmyrbKBZ6SU Even before that the subsidies for solar have been dwarfed by the subsidies that are in place for nuclear power. Recently in Germany the nuclear companies' lobbyists managed to get rif of the problem of end storage of nuclear waste by…

Thanks for the ressource I'll definitely have a look. However the fact that it's price competitive still don't imply that it's enough to counter climate change.

In a worst case scenario, if we go full solar, but are unable to slow a climat change that induce more cloudy weather (because more global evaporation) we are actually solving nothing.

Nuclear have a lots of cons, but the one of the pro is that we know them, while renewables are mostly untested at scale that approach current global electricity demand. (PS: Indeed lowering electric need is also a safe way to to reach the goal and should be the top priority)

Re: To Slow Global Warming, We Need Nuclear Power (Op-Ed)

#244

Post by ChuckMcM »

tmnvix wrote: post #206
ChuckMcM wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the interesting thing is that no nuclear plant built starting today would have any of the issues that hit Fukishima, Chernobyl, or Three Mile Island. Both because the material safety is better today, and we better understand how to engineer these to passively fail safe rather than have safety systems that can themselves fail. But the political will is hard to muster. And even though something like the traveling w…

> And the interesting thing is that no nuclear plant built starting today would have any of the issues that hit Fukishima, Chernobyl, or Three Mile Island. This might be true and is obviously a good thing but it does not make a good basis for your argument. That we have more faith in our designs now does not mean they are safe. There is still risk. I think there is a real possibility that nuclear may be necessary (du…

Fair enough.

I don't dismiss an emotional argument, I recognize that one can't engage in it, there is no counter point to emotion. Its sometime hard to explain but if someone is afraid of the dark, no amount of explaining risks will change their emotional response. What you can do is ask someone what it is about something that makes them afraid and give them tools to be less afraid.

I don't have any major concerns with nuclear power at the moment. Minor concerns are weapons proliferation which is solvable with thorium cycle reactors. From an engineering perspective. Also I have minor concerns with lifetimes of reactors that have run for decades. Irradiation of metals does degrade them over time so in terms of maintenance I'd like to see more investment in building new capacity so that older capacity could be retired and then packed up for long term storage.

Re: To Slow Global Warming, We Need Nuclear Power (Op-Ed)

#245

Post by ketralnis »

bad_user wrote: post #216
paulddraper wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once a small reactor, or a country hungry enough (China) succeeds with nuclear France has been succeeding for quite some time. The majority of their power comes from nuclear.

Ironic that after Germany shut down some nuclear plants they had, they started importing more energy from France, which has nuclear power plants near the borders with Germany.

If you believe that most of the cost is in disposing of waste and cleaning up a disaster, outsourcing that sounds like win/win

Re: To Slow Global Warming, We Need Nuclear Power (Op-Ed)

#246

Post by Aeolun »

maxnevermind wrote: post #233
niels_olson wrote: post #3

My undergrad is in Physics and I took engineering classes in Rickover Hall. I was stationed on a nuclear ship. Even after deploying for the Fukushima disaster, I am a fan of nuclear power. But I have a hard time justifying new investment in an era where solar is competitively priced. The downside of solar is approximately 0 compared to the downside of a reactor accident. I'll even allow for the high, high likelihood…

"The downside of solar is approximately 0" Don't think only about electricity in your home, think about some steel mill which maybe located in places with no sun, consume huge ammount of energy and has to run 24/7.

They don't have a nuclear reactor next door though. The energy gets there somehow. That wouldn't change with either energy source.

Re: To Slow Global Warming, We Need Nuclear Power (Op-Ed)

#247

Post by philipkglass »

amorphid wrote: post #229
niels_olson wrote: post #3

My undergrad is in Physics and I took engineering classes in Rickover Hall. I was stationed on a nuclear ship. Even after deploying for the Fukushima disaster, I am a fan of nuclear power. But I have a hard time justifying new investment in an era where solar is competitively priced. The downside of solar is approximately 0 compared to the downside of a reactor accident. I'll even allow for the high, high likelihood…

In the USA, I recently met a random nuclear power plant worker at a bar. They claimed that many currently operational nuclear plants have trouble remaining competitive in today's market. Apparently expanding or refurbishing an operational plant to extend it's useful life also requires a cost prohibitive retrofit to make it comply with current nuclear codes. For example, a plant opened in 1972 might still be running o…

Yes, the claims about economic weakness are correct. Mature American reactors looked like they would be amazing money-printing machines when natural gas prices were high and rising; then the shale revolution happened.

Nuclear power has higher fixed O&M costs than any other large scale electricity source: http://www.power-technology.com/features/featurepower-plant-...

That's a major handicap when competitors have cheap fuel (natural gas) or don't buy fuel at all (renewables). It's partially offset by very high nuclear capacity factors, but not enough. I suspect that much of that high O&M cost is going to wages; a nuclear plant employs something like 4x the number of full time workers per MWh generated as a well-sited large solar plant, and I would expect equal-or-better wages for the nuclear workers.

Re: To Slow Global Warming, We Need Nuclear Power (Op-Ed)

#248

Post by coldtea »

ketralnis wrote: post #245
bad_user wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironic that after Germany shut down some nuclear plants they had, they started importing more energy from France, which has nuclear power plants near the borders with Germany.

If you believe that most of the cost is in disposing of waste and cleaning up a disaster, outsourcing that sounds like win/win

Yes, let's lower the cost of disposing of waste - with whatever means necessary, dump it into lakes if needed.

Re: To Slow Global Warming, We Need Nuclear Power (Op-Ed)

#249

Post by coldtea »

hueving wrote: post #135
cma wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear waste storage is subsidized and nuclear liability is too (capped near $12billion; plausible accident scenarios can go over $1trillion).

>plausible accident scenarios can go over $1trillion Citation? Something like Chernobyl isn't even plausible with newer reactors and it wasn't $1t.

>Something like Chernobyl isn't even plausible with newer reactors

That's what they said for Chernobyl too.

Re: To Slow Global Warming, We Need Nuclear Power (Op-Ed)

#250

Post by sqeezy »

bad_user wrote: post #216
paulddraper wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once a small reactor, or a country hungry enough (China) succeeds with nuclear France has been succeeding for quite some time. The majority of their power comes from nuclear.

Ironic that after Germany shut down some nuclear plants they had, they started importing more energy from France, which has nuclear power plants near the borders with Germany.

actually you are wrong.

germany is exporting way more as they are importing http://phasenpruefer.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Handels...

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