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The Music of the Future

futuresymphony.org

11–20 of 93 posts

Re: The Music of the Future

#11
post #6
post #3

No mention of computers or synthesizers or sequencers or modern music technology of any kind, let alone music of the future.

Technology isn't what makes music modern. The points raised in the article go much, much deeper than that. This makes me think of the composer Conlon Nancarrow, who mostly composed for player piano. He was often credited as being a "father of electronic music", which baffled him. As far as he was concerned, he'd never composed a single note for an electronic music. But his music was the earliest attempt at seriously…

Have you seen recently released software synths? They are much different from traditional analog synths and are capable of way more possibilities of sound. Definitely modern.

I don't get why "traditional" musicians tend to dismiss electronic music. Electronic music is not just dubstep or Eurodance. There are modern genres such as future bass that incorporate more advanced musical composition and implement it with new technologies that many people enjoy.

Re: The Music of the Future

#12
I expect that this article's title will give some Hacker News readers an incorrect impression of what it's about.

As the article mentions, this talk was given at the Donaueschingen Festival, so the audience almost certainly consisted mostly of fans of avant-garde contemporary classical music. If the author only mentions jazz or rock, or electronics only in passing, it's because he's primarily talking about the future of contemporary classical music, and in particular the future of the sort of highly-experimental classical music played at the Donaueschingen Festival, and probably not the future of music at large.

In this context, I think his question is a reasonable one. What will/should innovative classical music look like in the future? The article's suggestion seems to be that it should focus less on being radically experimental, and more on innovating in a way which is more deeply rooted in traditional techniques and more easily comprehensible to the listener. I suppose the question is, in light of what is now a long history of extreme musical experimentation, what does innovation look like in this more traditional context? I obviously don't have any answers, but I agree with the author that it would be nice to see more focus in this in the experimental classical music culture.

As an aside, this article has a lot of references to composers and pieces which will make it tough reading for someone not already familiar with avant-garde classical. That said, it does give a nice whirlwind overview of a lot of historical trends in this space, so if you're unfamiliar, but still sufficiently interested, you might use it as a quick reference for areas to listen to. Alex Ross' book "The Rest is Noise" is a good resource for a deeper look at the area.

Re: The Music of the Future

#13

What other art forms dictate events as a function of time? Dance, I suppose. I must be missing something obvious. Maybe spoken word slams. Most other art forms that are performed over a period of time are not a function of time, but a function of dependency. In a play, you say your line after another actor finishes. Even in a movie it's the same way - it's not locked into an actual tempo until the editing process. Ex…

> It's odd to consider music written like this - where snippets of a piece are written in all sorts of conflicting tempos, and then finally assembled during "editing" into something cohesive (although I guess this is how the Norwegian megapop songwriters kind of do this).

Sample-heavy (hip-hop, house) musical genres have been doing this for a while. They'll take old 90 BPM records, sample em, pitch em/speed em up, or cut samples in such a way that they fit into new time signatures, keys, tempos, etc. The really good producers will take a bunch of samples and mash em up into a new work.

I think a lot of popular art forms have an internal tempo, whether their creators are conscious of structuring the tempo or not. All stories (music, movies, books, plays) have "shapes" [1] which incorporate a component of tempo. It would be interesting to make it explicit though for an art form where language rather than music is the main form of expression. Musicals are a happy medium here, a completely time-based dinner party or play might end up more like Jeopardy and less like free-flowing art.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP3c1h8v2ZQ

Re: The Music of the Future

#14

I expect that this article's title will give some Hacker News readers an incorrect impression of what it's about. As the article mentions, this talk was given at the Donaueschingen Festival, so the audience almost certainly consisted mostly of fans of avant-garde contemporary classical music. If the author only mentions jazz or rock, or electronics only in passing, it's because he's primarily talking about the future…

This article could use some youtube links.

For example this one, to the 12-note piece mentioned towards the start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sylplEFxXo and the talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8K9gkuHpMo

Re: The Music of the Future

#15
post #6
post #3

No mention of computers or synthesizers or sequencers or modern music technology of any kind, let alone music of the future.

Technology isn't what makes music modern. The points raised in the article go much, much deeper than that. This makes me think of the composer Conlon Nancarrow, who mostly composed for player piano. He was often credited as being a "father of electronic music", which baffled him. As far as he was concerned, he'd never composed a single note for an electronic music. But his music was the earliest attempt at seriously…

No, there is lots of experimentation in electronic music. "Dubstep" and "Eurodance" are not the only instantiations of electronically composed music.

I'd link you to some but I don't really care about convincing someone with unknown tastes.

Synths and sequences are tools, and are no more limiting than fingers or strings. Throwing away every musical convention might be interesting, but so is experimenting to see why those conventions developed in the first place. What parts of the structure can be removed? When and why?

Computers are generally very unrestrictive--they can be used to put together virtually any sound one can think of, as opposed to physical instruments which have physical limitations (although there are exceptions - the people doing pop music or the boring wub-wub-wub of dubstep or the endless 4/4 oontz of Eurodance have different goals in mind than mere experimentation, and they enforce their restrictions with their tools to help produce their ideas more effectively).

One of the best modern music performances I've ever heard was a live electronic performance where a single tone was generated and then manipulated on the spot beyond recognition. It was complex, dynamic, exciting, and above all, musical - but it worked only because of the availability of electronic musical tools.

Re: The Music of the Future

#16
post #7

Not really to the article's point at all, but when I think of "the music of the future", I think of the extended funk experiments of the 1970s. 40 years ago, Miles Davis' band sounded like music from 40 years in the future. It still sounds like music from 40 years in the future. And he wasn't alone... Parliament/Funkadelic, Fela Kuti, and others were working with these deep, deep funk grooves that ran forever and sou…

Eric Dolphy, Charles Mingus, and Andrew Hill stand out(to me) in this way. Love the Funk picks, and I would throw in Sly Stone. Ishmael Butler, of Digable Planets and Shabazz Palaces, also has a knack for creating music with a futuristic yet timeless quality.

Re: The Music of the Future

#17
How about a super-optimizing hyper-intelligent AI with "hyperspace effectors" from the Culture books? Make it the "Mind" who was shunned as a pervert, because he liked to mess with sentients. We'll call him "MeatFracker." Perhaps a "concert" from MF could be billed as a new kind of experience, where MF scans the brains of the listeners to determine the best sounds to play. What's more, MF could conduct experiments, determine the best phrase out of several, then "rewind" the brains of the audience so that everyone only remembers hearing the best phrase. This process is then iterated over the entire "set" of compositions. The concert would take longer than the audience's subjective experience of the time. However, the audience would likely be left in tears and speechless, saying the experience was timeless and indescribable.

As a meta joke, years later, he could confess to not actually having gone through with the above process, and instead say he used remote brain manipulations equivalent to injecting the audience with LSD while playing Nickleback.

Re: The Music of the Future

#18

Interesting ideas wrapped up in painfully obfuscated academic references (obviously not intended for this audience). THE FOURTH DEVELOPMENT [of new music], which is in many ways the most interesting, [is] namely the replacement of tones by sounds, and musical by acoustical hearing. Varèse, Pierre Schaeffer and their immediate successors awoke composers and audiences to the many new sounds, some of them produced elect…

FWIW, one of my beefs with classical music is the extreme lack of diversity in tones (ie: piano, violin, ...) as opposed to popular music (synthesizer)

When you listen popular music on a timeline (70s, 80s, ...), you can at the same time see to the evolution of synthesizers and music production software.

Re: The Music of the Future

#19
post #3

No mention of computers or synthesizers or sequencers or modern music technology of any kind, let alone music of the future.

I expect the article doesn't mention them because it views them as a means to an end. Since the article is about high-level philosophical concerns and not the nuts and bolts of how the music is created, talking about compositional/performance tools such as computers and synthesizers would be out of place -- the article is more concerned with the aesthetic goals which these or other tools would be used toward rather than the tools themselves.

Anyway the article does actually mention electronics at least twice, althouh both times mostly in passing:

"I draw your attention to the example we heard yesterday, when Nathan Davies used live filtering to give the effect of resonators, extracting tones from white noise, and turning those tones towards music."

"Joanna Bailie, to take just one example, has used the recorded and digitally processed sounds ..."

Re: The Music of the Future

#20
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technology isn't what makes music modern. The points raised in the article go much, much deeper than that. This makes me think of the composer Conlon Nancarrow, who mostly composed for player piano. He was often credited as being a "father of electronic music", which baffled him. As far as he was concerned, he'd never composed a single note for an electronic music. But his music was the earliest attempt at seriously…

Have you seen recently released software synths? They are much different from traditional analog synths and are capable of way more possibilities of sound. Definitely modern. I don't get why "traditional" musicians tend to dismiss electronic music. Electronic music is not just dubstep or Eurodance. There are modern genres such as future bass that incorporate more advanced musical composition and implement it with new…

I hope I'm not coming off as dismissive of electronic music in general... just the idea that "computers and synthesizers and sequencers" represent the future of music. They are, at best, merely instruments. If anything, they're pretty strongly wedded to some very narrow musical conventions, such as 12 tone equal temperament and basic time signatures like 4/4 and 3/4. Getting past those limitations is doable, but difficult.

Electronic music can be wonderfully experimental, but that's not because of anything that's been invented lately. Listen to the Forbidden Planet soundtrack, for example. That was wild, and it was 1956. I work with a lot of electronic musicians, and there's a strong interest in older instruments - analog synthesis, early digital like 12 bit samplers, etc.

I've used recent software synths, but for the most part, they're either not all that interesting, or they're studied knockoffs of analog synthesis techniques from the 1970s and earlier. At worst, many/most hit Brian Eno's criticism of modern synths - they lack character. By trying to sound like everything, they wind up not sounding like themselves.

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