To fixate on finding work that makes us happy is a luxury • Hacker News Board

Re: To fixate on finding work that makes us happy is a luxury

#41

Post by jasode » Wed, Dec 21, 2016, 4:15 PM UTC

submitted title: "To fixate on finding work that makes us happy is a luxury"

blog actual title: "Screw Your Passion. Get a Job."

Both the submitted title and the blog's title do not pinpoint the author's main issue: don't make others (such as your parents) unfairly pay for your pursuit of passion.

It's not about "passion". It's about funding.

They are orthogonal. So... either:

1) pursue your passion part time while paying the bills with a "day job" -- which is what many musicians, poets, novelists, artists, etc do.

2) consciously downsize your lifestyle and stick to the budget of a starving artist (cheap apartment, used car, no Starbucks) while selling your artwork on the street or whatever. When the big commission money from the Guggenheim Museum comes in, you can start buying Starbucks.

Many variations of those 2 options can keep passion-seekers from burdening their parents.

Re: To fixate on finding work that makes us happy is a luxury

#42

Post by twoquestions » Wed, Dec 21, 2016, 4:19 PM UTC

hso1 wrote: post #38

twoquestions wrote: post #30

You really can't do your best work unless you're at least somewhat passionate about it. I don't get why people can think you're more productive at a job you dislike or hate and have to force yourself to get anything done, rather than doing something valuable that you'll get things done without huge amounts of willpower. Failing to find something that your're passionate about and valuable is cheating both yourself and…

What do we need our passion for? To motivate ourselves? IMO, we have a problem when we expect to feel motivated to do stuff. I think we need to learn to do stuff even if we "don't feel it" yet, that state comes later as a reward for doing. Long ago I read an article that made me think about this: http://www.wisdomination.com/screw-motivation-what-you-need-...

No doubt going on passion alone is foolhardy, but you'll be less productive if you hate what you do.

I know more than a few people who avoid seeking jobs they enjoy because they feel "work should be miserable and hard". I don't understand them at all.

Re: To fixate on finding work that makes us happy is a luxury

#43

Post by ravitation » Wed, Dec 21, 2016, 4:20 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #41

submitted title: "To fixate on finding work that makes us happy is a luxury" blog actual title: "Screw Your Passion. Get a Job." Both the submitted title and the blog's title do not pinpoint the author's main issue : don't make others (such as your parents) unfairly pay for your pursuit of passion. It's not about "passion". It's about funding . They are orthogonal. So... either: 1) pursue your passion part time while…

That operates under the assumptions that you are:

1) Making others pay for your pursuit of passion.

2) That having others paying for your pursuit of passion is unfair to them.

Neither of which are safe, or even good, assumptions to make.

Conversely, I am willing to assume that Santiago's father probably gladly paid for some things that allowed his son to pursue his passions, and - as stated in the piece - allowed him to do work that intersects his passions. Immigrating was probably one of those things.

Re: To fixate on finding work that makes us happy is a luxury

#44

Post by TeMPOraL » Wed, Dec 21, 2016, 4:21 PM UTC

twoquestions wrote: post #30

You really can't do your best work unless you're at least somewhat passionate about it. I don't get why people can think you're more productive at a job you dislike or hate and have to force yourself to get anything done, rather than doing something valuable that you'll get things done without huge amounts of willpower. Failing to find something that your're passionate about and valuable is cheating both yourself and…

Entering work life gets one disillusioned about that pretty fast. Those kinds of jobs you want us to find are very rare, and the only reliable way to love a job that's accessible to the most of us is to keep harming your own soul until you finally develop a case of Stockholm syndrome for your line of work.

Seriously, most jobs are about you doing stupid - and often morally questionable - shit to enrich the owners, while only incidentally providing any value to society at large, and only the minimum amount of value the company can get away with. All of that in exchange for currency which you need to stay alive.

Do you think grocery store clerks have passion for their work? In particular, are they passionate about all the shenanigans like washing old meat with dishwashing fluid to make it smell less? No, they do this to stay alive. Do you think programmers writing all those stupid superaddictive on-line games have passion for sucking money out of people who lack impulse control? Well, maybe they do, but that's exactly the soul damage I'm talking about.

So sure, by not working on something I'm passionate about I am "cheating" the society out of the value I could be creating. Except that the society is not often giving away jobs I can be passionate about without utterly destroying my very self.

Re: To fixate on finding work that makes us happy is a luxury

#45

Post by jasode » Wed, Dec 21, 2016, 4:26 PM UTC

ravitation wrote: post #43

jasode wrote: post #41

submitted title: "To fixate on finding work that makes us happy is a luxury" blog actual title: "Screw Your Passion. Get a Job." Both the submitted title and the blog's title do not pinpoint the author's main issue : don't make others (such as your parents) unfairly pay for your pursuit of passion. It's not about "passion". It's about funding . They are orthogonal. So... either: 1) pursue your passion part time while…

That operates under the assumptions that you are: 1) Making others pay for your pursuit of passion. 2) That having others paying for your pursuit of passion is unfair to them. Neither of which are safe, or even good, assumptions to make. Conversely, I am willing to assume that Santiago's father probably gladly paid for some things that allowed his son to pursue his passions, and - as stated in the piece - allowed him…

>Neither of which are safe, or even good, assumptions to make.

I'm not making that assumption. I'm responding to the article. Author already framed it with the question:

"Are you a burden to those around you?"

That self-diagnostic question is really the main point of the article. The "screw passion" in the title is just provocative bait. The article goes on to admonish those who mentally say "yes" to that question.

Re: To fixate on finding work that makes us happy is a luxury

#46

Post by ravitation » Wed, Dec 21, 2016, 4:27 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #45

ravitation wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That operates under the assumptions that you are: 1) Making others pay for your pursuit of passion. 2) That having others paying for your pursuit of passion is unfair to them. Neither of which are safe, or even good, assumptions to make. Conversely, I am willing to assume that Santiago's father probably gladly paid for some things that allowed his son to pursue his passions, and - as stated in the piece - allowed him…

>Neither of which are safe, or even good, assumptions to make. I'm not making that assumption. I'm responding to the article. Author already framed it with the question: "Are you a burden to those around you?" That self-diagnostic question is really the main point of the article. The "screw passion" in the title is just provocative bait. The article goes on to admonish those who mentally say "yes" to that question.

I am also responding to the article, and I'm also responding to your response to the article. I'm responding to part of your response that seems to take the assumptions that are made in the article at face value.

Yes, he promotes that self-diagnosis without defining burden, which is also kind of the point of my response to your comment.

Re: To fixate on finding work that makes us happy is a luxury

#47

Post by jasode » Wed, Dec 21, 2016, 4:32 PM UTC

ravitation wrote: post #46

jasode wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Neither of which are safe, or even good, assumptions to make. I'm not making that assumption. I'm responding to the article. Author already framed it with the question: "Are you a burden to those around you?" That self-diagnostic question is really the main point of the article. The "screw passion" in the title is just provocative bait. The article goes on to admonish those who mentally say "yes" to that question.

I am also responding to the article, and I'm also responding to your response to the article. I'm responding to part of your response that seems to take the assumptions that are made in the article at face value. Yes, he promotes that self-diagnosis without defining burden , which is also kind of the point of my response to your comment.

>, he promotes that self-diagnosis without defining burden,

Personally, I don't need the author to define "burden" for me to understand his point.

Part of being an adult is to judge the financial relationship with your parents as being fair. This includes overriding your parents saying to you, "Oh don't mind us, we don't need that $5000 for a European vacation or retirement funds. We want you to use it to produce your rap youtube video!"

In other words, parents can be simultaneously "generous to you" and "unfair to themselves".

No doubt you have your own idea of what is a burden which may be different from many other readers but it doesn't really matter right? Every parent-child dynamic is different.

Re: To fixate on finding work that makes us happy is a luxury

#48

Post by TeMPOraL » Wed, Dec 21, 2016, 4:35 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #13

LKAndrew wrote: post #10

As someone who makes a great salary on doing what I love to do, I don't think it's all bullshit. Following your passion doesn't have to mean that you want to be a rock star. It's ridiculous to think that you can't find something you're passionate about in your work.

If you're finding something in your work to be passionate about, are you "following your passion"? I always read that expression to be about changing your life, not adjusting your passions to fit it.

Yet the latter seems to be the only reliable way to accomplish it. I often wonder, if those people writing about "following passion" actually found a work that fits their passions, or made their passions fit their work...

Re: To fixate on finding work that makes us happy is a luxury

#49

Post by twoquestions » Wed, Dec 21, 2016, 4:39 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #44

twoquestions wrote: post #30

You really can't do your best work unless you're at least somewhat passionate about it. I don't get why people can think you're more productive at a job you dislike or hate and have to force yourself to get anything done, rather than doing something valuable that you'll get things done without huge amounts of willpower. Failing to find something that your're passionate about and valuable is cheating both yourself and…

Entering work life gets one disillusioned about that pretty fast. Those kinds of jobs you want us to find are very rare, and the only reliable way to love a job that's accessible to the most of us is to keep harming your own soul until you finally develop a case of Stockholm syndrome for your line of work. Seriously, most jobs are about you doing stupid - and often morally questionable - shit to enrich the owners, wh…

There's times I forget how lucky I am to kinda like my job, and that most people are forced to sell their time to some distant corporate noble rather than providing value to their friends and neighbors. Thank you for reminding me.

Re: To fixate on finding work that makes us happy is a luxury

#50

Post by ravitation » Wed, Dec 21, 2016, 4:42 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #47

ravitation wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am also responding to the article, and I'm also responding to your response to the article. I'm responding to part of your response that seems to take the assumptions that are made in the article at face value. Yes, he promotes that self-diagnosis without defining burden , which is also kind of the point of my response to your comment.

>, he promotes that self-diagnosis without defining burden, Personally, I don't need the author to define "burden" for me to understand his point. Part of being an adult is to judge the financial relationship with your parents as being fair. This includes overriding your parents saying to you, "Oh don't mind us, we don't need that $5000 for a European vacation or retirement funds. We want you to use it to produce you…

> but it doesn't really matter right?

Yes, it absolutely does matter. The difference isn't that I'm defining the meaning of burden differently than you. It's that I'm choosing to not broadly define it at all (because I know that every dynamic is different), and that the author (and you) are choosing to define it.

The author's entire point completely relies on a universal definition of burden because he's also making a universal statement about following one's passions. That universal definition doesn't exist because (as you said) every dynamic is different. So, his entire argument (the title of the piece) falls apart once it's understood that the definition of burden is inherently non-universal.

Also, the word burden is just not a very good (e.g. very descriptive) word in this context.