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How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

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Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#441

Post by sqeaky »

zdw wrote: post #178
sqeaky wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the C++ codebase I work with my 6700 compiles 4.5 MLOC of code in a little less than half the time my 2nd gen i7 does. Hardly scientific, but the 6th i7s are really fast.

This is probably due to the improved storage iops of a PCIe flash drive more than the CPU.

Both machines have a RAID 1 of the same model of SSD (2x Corsair force 3 GTs) and no PCIE involved. Each gets about 1.1 gb/s when I benchmark it in Bonnie++.

That and all 8 cores (I am counting the HT threads as cores) in the system monitor are fully saturated on both machines until the the linking stage of the build. I have a great deal of confidence the newer CPUs are significantly for at least building C++ code when disk bandwidth is not an issue.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#442

Post by sqeaky »

bonzini wrote: post #238
zdw wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably due to the improved storage iops of a PCIe flash drive more than the CPU.

And more available memory, letting the OS cache more files in RAM.

The older machine as 32 GB of RAM and the newer has 64gb. This could potentially be an issue, but generally the build consumes no more than 6GB leaving a leaving amount unused. Memory bandwidth is more likely.

But really I am building C++, all the parsing and re-parsing is stupidly CPU intensive. most 5400 rpm drives can feed the compiler fast enough to keep them saturated.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#443

Post by will_hughes »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #434
will_hughes wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a Mac user, but having listened to friends who are, their complaints fall into: - so many dongles required (ethernet, Adapters to HDMI, DVI, etc, sdcard readers, USB C to USB A, and another one to get their iPhone to connect) - some of them need to be genuine Apple to get decent performance, and those are all hideously expensive. - lack of ram (tops out at 16GB even on 15" model) - not the best battery life A…

That's an interesting point, and it tallies with what I've heard. I'll give Apple a pass on the RAM, which AFAIK was down to unavailability of Kaby Lake. Probably better to get the machines out, and bump them when Kaby Lake is available. The dongle thing is a worse situation. While I appreciate the steps taken by Apple, it does seem like the whole malarkey could have been avoided with the inclusion of a couple of bas…

The ram thing was mainly due to a decision to go with lpddr3, which tops out at 16GB.

The argument they put forth was a battery life one. But they made it thinner which reduces the volume available for battery.

Also, the dongle complaint is mainly that to use it, you need to carry a bag full of dongles around.

Also, thinner laptops than that have had no issues packing a USB-A port in.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#444

Post by scentedmeat »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #402

I've started to wonder if I'm the only one who isn't understanding the problem in general. The MacBook is fine – the new models are quite expensive, and I'm sure having to carry some dongles could be annoying, but it's a lovely machine and there are obvious reasons and long-term benefits for those choices. I'll definitely consider purchasing one when the next refresh allows the processor and memory options to be bump…

> The MacBook is fine – the new models are quite expensive, and...

True, for Macbooks, they are fine. For MacBook Pros however, they are disappointing. They really added nothing, and just took away. And then raised the price.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#445

Post by Raptor22 »

funkydata wrote: post #422
coldtea wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My main computer is a five year old 17" MBP. I've upgraded it to the max and done repairs to maintain it. I need the computational power - I use it for programming, photo editing at scale, and recording/mixing music. It would cost me $3000 to replace it with a computer that is not significantly more powerful Compared to a five year old 17"? More like double the power. And unbelievably faster SSD (even if you have a…

Also @beat forgot to say "matte display". MATTE. Mine is a 6 year old 17 inches MBP and I still use it for everything. It's still current. I can also rip CDs with it (it is handy children) :) I've even found a VERY simple way to dual boot Windows 10 on it after trying to get the instructions I found everywhere to work (after Apple made sure it was indeed difficult). I even play games on it. To me it was the reference…

I agree with you, and I feel Apple is leaving money on the table by not doing this.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#446

Post by blackrose »

dkonofalski wrote: post #326
elliotec wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears you are in the minority. Apple has disenfranchised a lot of loyalists for a lot of reasons. Think of how absurd it is that you can't even plug in your new iPhone 7 into your new Macbook Pro.

What, really? What happens when you plug it in? Does it tell you that you can't use it? Does it lock you out? Does it brick the phone? Ohhhh...you meant that you have to get an adapter. Of course you can plug the phone into the new MacBook. The only thing that might be absurd is that you might need an adapter to plug it in but, in reality, there's nothing that you'd really need to plug it in for anyways except to cha…

It's called "batteries not included" and it's a shitty thing to do as a company when you're selling a several-hundred-dollar device.

Seriously? They can't include a $19 cord?

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#447

Post by MR4D »

I feel that Apple made a mistake with the MBP. For instance, why aren't MacBooks 11" and 13", and the Pros should have been 14" and 16". At least with that, there would be a feeling of differentiation (assuming everything else stayed as delivered this fall).

It seems as though Apple fell down where they are historically the strongest - managing perception. And that has me frustrated because I'm wondering what's next to fall (like many others on HN).

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#448

Post by grennis »

mcphage wrote: post #222
electic wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did take a close look at the Surface Pro. Sorry, the build quality is nowhere near a MacBook Pro. Secondly, I found the touch screen very gimmicky. I tried using it for a week and found that my hand just hurt lifting it up repeatedly and also hated switching context from the keyboard to the screen. Not to mention, the screen was full of smudge marks after awhile. To be honest, I really found myself using the keyboa…

> Fix the battery issue. They really need to fix that from a hardware perspective. Also, the OS needs to be optimized to preserve battery. The burden can't be fully on hardware. They actually have been doing this for the past few years—for instance, when you ask the OS for a timer, the timer you get will be ±10% of what you requested so that a bunch of timers can go off all at once. This way the CPU can sleep, wake u…

They only have been doing that for the past few years? Android did that in 2009

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#449

Post by autoreleasepool »

fooker wrote: post #164
autoreleasepool wrote: post #106

After being an Apple "Loyalist" for over 15 years, I recently sold my rMBP and built a desktop (i7 4790k, GTX 1080, 16Gb DDR3 @ 2933Mhz). It was by far the best hardware decision I have ever made. Building the system was an absolute blast. Plus, I now have an extremely powerful PC with first class Linux support, tons of I/O ports, and no vendor lock in. The best part is it cost me about 1/3 of the price of a (maxed-o…

I am puzzled about missing homebrew.. You said you are installing Xubuntu, which comes with an excellent package manager with less issued than a brew user is likely to run into.

To be honest, I use Windows 10 as my daily driver on the PC. Xubuntu is on the chromebook.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#450

Post by pmyjavec »

autoreleasepool wrote: post #106

After being an Apple "Loyalist" for over 15 years, I recently sold my rMBP and built a desktop (i7 4790k, GTX 1080, 16Gb DDR3 @ 2933Mhz). It was by far the best hardware decision I have ever made. Building the system was an absolute blast. Plus, I now have an extremely powerful PC with first class Linux support, tons of I/O ports, and no vendor lock in. The best part is it cost me about 1/3 of the price of a (maxed-o…

Same, I have bought a Dell Ultrabook (XPS-13), and with the money I'm saving I will build a very quick desktop for working from home.

You're also spot on, building computers and upgrading them is a lot of fun.

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