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20 years ago, Apple bought NeXT

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Re: 20 years ago, Apple bought NeXT

#111
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10 shares of AAPL in 1996 isn't that large of a windfall today. The stock has had 3 splits 2:1,2:1,7:1 in that time frame. 10 shares in 1996 would have had a cost of $7.50 and a present market value of ~$32,000.

Well, $7.50 in 1996 dollars is apparently worth $11.67 today in 2016. $32,000 doesn't sound like too bad a return.

Forgot about the $546 it nets you in dividends each year.

Re: 20 years ago, Apple bought NeXT

#112
post #36
post #2

The standard snark is that NeXT bought Apple for -$400 million.

This is great. I mean, the fact that NeXT tech was preserved and made popular is great.

To an extent... but their swansong vision of portable OPENSTEP was quickly shut down by Apple, which is a crying shame because if OPENSTEP was still around it would be keeping Microsoft competitive on the desktop front - instead of today's languished desktop developer story which remains frozen in 1998 (for Win32) or 2005 (for .NET).

Now that Swift is open-sourced, I wonder if we'll see a good Cocoa port to Win32 and Linux - because that would be NEXTSTEP's legacy.

Re: 20 years ago, Apple bought NeXT

#113
post #95
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the contributions NeXT technology has made to OS X and iOS, no that's an oversimplification.

Jobs brought in a great team from NeXT - like Jon Rubinstein, who oversaw the development of the iMac and the iPod, and later came as close to rescuing Palm, Inc. (with the Pre) as was possible.

Yep that's a good point as well. Jobs wasn't the only valuable person who came from NeXT.

Re: 20 years ago, Apple bought NeXT

#114

> What came out of this deal not only saved Apple and the Mac, Er... interesting revisionism, here. That acquisition didn't do much to save Apple from the financial hole it had dug for itself. Bill Gates is really what saved Apple back then.

Microsoft gave a similar infusion of cash to Corel at around the same time. Through very adept dealing they managed to leverage that investment, essentially forcing the board to accept a buyout from Vector (a VC company partly owned by Paul Allen). MS took a huge loss on the deal ($125 million spent, sold their shares to Vector for $13 million), but Vector made an absolute killing.

I have no doubt in my mind that this was the plan for Apple as well. Whoever managed that deal on the Apple side must have been on their toes. Of course, the investment paid off handsomely for MS, but I'm quite sure that this wasn't their intent.

So while I think it is true that Apple required the cash infusion they got, they managed the situation masterfully. Whether or not they could have secured funding some other way, we'll never know because they took MS's money.

Re: 20 years ago, Apple bought NeXT

#115

> What came out of this deal not only saved Apple and the Mac, Er... interesting revisionism, here. That acquisition didn't do much to save Apple from the financial hole it had dug for itself. Bill Gates is really what saved Apple back then.

> I called up Bill and said, “I’m going to turn this thing around.” Bill always had a soft spot for Apple. We got him into the application software business. The first Microsoft apps were Excel and Word for the Mac. So I called him and said, “I need help.” Microsoft was walking over Apple’s patents. I said, “If we kept up our lawsuits, a few years from now we could win a billion-dollar patent suit. You know it, and I know it. But Apple’s not going to survive that long if we’re at war. I know that. So let’s figure out how to settle this right away. All I need is a commitment that Microsoft will keep developing for the Mac and an investment by Microsoft in Apple so it has a stake in our success."

Re: 20 years ago, Apple bought NeXT

#116
post #12
post #6

>> What came out of this deal not only saved Apple and the Mac, but made the iPhone, iPad and more possible as well. What prevents Apple from making the iPhone and iPad? They could have bought Palm, QNX, did something based on Linux... What was the key? BSD? Objective-C? I don't see those being that important. The one thing NeXT did enable them to do was the PowerPC to Intel switch.

The totality of Nextstep (kernel, os, obj-c runtime/component model, frameworks, gui layer, tooling, expert teams who built and maintained these things, etc, etc) was much greater than Palm or QNX, let alone something yet unbuilt 'based on Linux'.

Speaking of NeXT, I've yet to read a good history that explains how that came together. There's so much innovation there -- the NeXTStep kits (which became Cocoa, among other things), Objective-C, the fact that they used a Unix kernel. It was a lot of great ideas, but I don't think I have heard about who designed it. It's interesting to note, for example, that NeXT didn't invent Objective-C; they licensed it from the two guys who created it, Tom Love and Brad Cox, neither of whom I think were involved in development of NeXTStep. I'd love to learn more.

Re: 20 years ago, Apple bought NeXT

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve Jobs, the team he assembled, and a willingness to cut. Apple at the time was running the Newton which, although I loved programming it, was a totally wrong direction. It just wasn't connected as Mr. Jobs explained in his Q&A[1]. He built a much better OS than the Mac at that time. Palm couldn't build the iPhone with Palm and had to build WebOS. QNX is amazing, but its UI and client developer library wasn't ther…

I don't understand the Taligent reference. Taligent happened while Jobs was out of Apple -- it was a competitor to NeXT back when everything was about "object-oriented desktops", and Jobs didn't like them, much like he didn't like OpenDoc, for pretty good technical reasons. It's not surprising that Taligent went nowhere, same as OpenDoc.

I was comparing NeXTSTEP with one of its contemporaries to show how innovative and polished it was. Taligent was supposed to be the standard and it was a true pain in the butt to program. Apple and HP bailed in 1995.

I did like the concept of People, Places, and Things. It is a shame that little pieces of a good idea can be lost because of the overall failure.

Re: 20 years ago, Apple bought NeXT

#118
post #6

>> What came out of this deal not only saved Apple and the Mac, but made the iPhone, iPad and more possible as well. What prevents Apple from making the iPhone and iPad? They could have bought Palm, QNX, did something based on Linux... What was the key? BSD? Objective-C? I don't see those being that important. The one thing NeXT did enable them to do was the PowerPC to Intel switch.

I think the fact that Palm's technology was designed for mobile and NeXT's wasn't turned out to be a huge advantage in the long run. If Apple had planned to build the iPhone in 1996, they probably would have bought Palm and ended up with something a far cry short of the iPhone as we know it, for obvious reasons. Palm's OS was designed for what mobile hardware was capable of in the 90s, whereas NeXT's OS was designed…

Owners of the Treo would disagree with you there.

Palm OS wasn't even suitable for 90s mobile hardware. It was a buggy mess.

Re: 20 years ago, Apple bought NeXT

#119
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculous pedantry, but the "NS" prefix actually means "Next / Sun". It was introduced in OpenStep [1], which was supposed to become Sun's GUI layer on Solaris until Java happened. Before the OpenStep revamp, the class prefix used in NeXTSTEP was "NX". I think there are still some lingering NX* classes/functions you might see in AppKit stack traces. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStep

That's an amazing factoid. "NS" standing for NeXTSTEP would then be a popular misconception, then. It also introduces an interesting hypothetical of what if Sun ended up adopting OpenStep, if Java was not developed in time or fell through or whatever.

The OpenStep spec was a collaboration between NeXT and Sun. OpenStep was available as a full OS (for 68k NeXT hardware and 486 beige PCs) as well as running on top of Solaris (SPARC), HPUX, and Windows NT. Sun went with Java instead but Microsoft has a WinObjC project. Go Figure. Until 10.7 or so, OS X still included Windows NT theme graphics [1].

NeXTStep 3.0 used the NS namespace; 2.0 and earlier was NX.

[1] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/02/mac_images/

Re: 20 years ago, Apple bought NeXT

#120

> What came out of this deal not only saved Apple and the Mac, Er... interesting revisionism, here. That acquisition didn't do much to save Apple from the financial hole it had dug for itself. Bill Gates is really what saved Apple back then.

Microsoft provided emergency funding. It's quite possible that they could have raised the money some other way, though. However, wherever the money came from, Apple would have been doomed had they kept on their original path, so it doesn't seem that unreasonable to claim that the NeXT purchase saved them.
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