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How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

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Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#401

Post by Recurecur »

nicpottier wrote: post #305
Recurecur wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just lack of hardware updates, but the lack of complete system categories. It's the height of hypocrisy to tout a green approach to things, while not even offering an upgradable machine, e.g. a tower. All-in-ones like the iMac are usually discarded if either the motherboard or the display goes south, whereas a tower is easily fixed. Also, power users are left out in the cold, with the Mac Pro the only system fitt…

This isn't thinking different, this is thinking backwards. They tried that once, didn't with so well and it was the first thing Jobs reverted when he came back. Apple knows bit from iOS and OSX that one of their defining advantages cones from their close ties of hardware and software. They won't give that away again. The drama around the new MBPs is all about price. No idea why they went so high but if they were more…

"This isn't thinking different, this is thinking backwards. They tried that once, didn't with so well and it was the first thing Jobs reverted when he came back."

Times have changed. Macs are down to a pretty small percentage of Apple's revenues - what Apple needs is widespread uptake of macOS to promote the ecosystem of macOS + iOS.

"Apple knows bit from iOS and OSX that one of their defining advantages cones from their close ties of hardware and software. They won't give that away again."

Apple is using almost completely generic PC hardware at this point. See my other post regarding hardware.

"The drama around the new MBPs is all about price. No idea why they went so high but if they were more in line with with PC pricing there would be very little complaint."

Not at all. Much of the drama around the new MBPs was how anemic they look compared to other "pro" laptops. They don't even support 32 GB of RAM, much less 64. No ECC. No Xeons. No "pro" level graphics chips.

Apple is the largest and arguably richest company in the world. Surely it could do a much better job of serving the many market segments. One size does not fit all!

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#402

Post by matthewmacleod »

I've started to wonder if I'm the only one who isn't understanding the problem in general.

The MacBook is fine – the new models are quite expensive, and I'm sure having to carry some dongles could be annoying, but it's a lovely machine and there are obvious reasons and long-term benefits for those choices. I'll definitely consider purchasing one when the next refresh allows the processor and memory options to be bumped a bit. It's a bit disappointing the the Mac Pro or Mac Mini haven't seen updates, though I expect that's just down to insufficient sales to justify it.

The software stack is fine too – I've had minimal problems through multiple machines and macOS versions, and everything seems to be incrementally improving. Meanwhile, I get a pretty good UNIX environment and a pretty good GUI. Cloud services (calendars, reminders, keychains etc.) seem to work pretty reliably, and there are lots of little features that generally work well.

I just can't help but feel it's all a little overblown. Sure, look at the alternatives – a nice Dell running Linux, or a Surface or whatever – and if they suit your requirements better, cool! But I just can't see the abrupt, precipitous nosedive that seems to be the current narrative around Apple.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#403

Post by rnet85 »

dkonofalski wrote: post #326
elliotec wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears you are in the minority. Apple has disenfranchised a lot of loyalists for a lot of reasons. Think of how absurd it is that you can't even plug in your new iPhone 7 into your new Macbook Pro.

What, really? What happens when you plug it in? Does it tell you that you can't use it? Does it lock you out? Does it brick the phone? Ohhhh...you meant that you have to get an adapter. Of course you can plug the phone into the new MacBook. The only thing that might be absurd is that you might need an adapter to plug it in but, in reality, there's nothing that you'd really need to plug it in for anyways except to cha…

Yes, you've to get an adaptor, but when I've invested thousands into their ecosystem there is a certain level of expectation that their products work integrate seamlessly without such hassles.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#404

Post by xanderstrike »

Raphmedia wrote: post #342
autoreleasepool wrote: post #106

After being an Apple "Loyalist" for over 15 years, I recently sold my rMBP and built a desktop (i7 4790k, GTX 1080, 16Gb DDR3 @ 2933Mhz). It was by far the best hardware decision I have ever made. Building the system was an absolute blast. Plus, I now have an extremely powerful PC with first class Linux support, tons of I/O ports, and no vendor lock in. The best part is it cost me about 1/3 of the price of a (maxed-o…

Take a look at https://chocolatey.org/ for an alternative to homebrew.

That's for windows, it won't work in Xubuntu.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#405

Post by hyperbovine »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #402

I've started to wonder if I'm the only one who isn't understanding the problem in general. The MacBook is fine – the new models are quite expensive, and I'm sure having to carry some dongles could be annoying, but it's a lovely machine and there are obvious reasons and long-term benefits for those choices. I'll definitely consider purchasing one when the next refresh allows the processor and memory options to be bump…

You are right. Nothing else even comes close -- right now. But for the first time in a long time, there's an opening for some smart company to come in deliver the sort of user experience that only Apple (/ Steve) once could. We'll see if it happens or not.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#406

Post by srssays »

guitarbill wrote: post #323
beat wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just hardware. Apple has officially abandoned Firewire protocol maintenance. We're okay at the moment, but how many more MacOS upgrades will we have where Firewire still works? And I'm not an outlier case. There are a lot of audio professionals and semi-pros that depend on old Firewire interfaces. These were Apple's market for selling high-end laptops! This is basically just disregard for your oldest and fra…

out of interest, which platform still has better firewire support? most windows laptops don't have them either. btw, as someone who didn't use firewire, i hated that port. waste of space, could have used an extra usb port instead. and it wasn't like there was a lot of gear that used it, unlike e.g. ethernet or vga which sometimes came in handy (i also loath vga).

In the beginning, USB1 was no competition for Firewire. 12Mbps vs 400Mbps.

USB2 was more competitive, but Firewire stuck around due to its lower latency for audio applications.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#407

Post by will_hughes »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #402

I've started to wonder if I'm the only one who isn't understanding the problem in general. The MacBook is fine – the new models are quite expensive, and I'm sure having to carry some dongles could be annoying, but it's a lovely machine and there are obvious reasons and long-term benefits for those choices. I'll definitely consider purchasing one when the next refresh allows the processor and memory options to be bump…

I'm not a Mac user, but having listened to friends who are, their complaints fall into:

- so many dongles required (ethernet, Adapters to HDMI, DVI, etc, sdcard readers, USB C to USB A, and another one to get their iPhone to connect) - some of them need to be genuine Apple to get decent performance, and those are all hideously expensive.

- lack of ram (tops out at 16GB even on 15" model)

- not the best battery life

All of this seems to have been sacrificed in the name of thinness.

Folks who wanted thin could already get that with the Air / Non-Pro variants.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#408

Post by evo_9 »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #402

I've started to wonder if I'm the only one who isn't understanding the problem in general. The MacBook is fine – the new models are quite expensive, and I'm sure having to carry some dongles could be annoying, but it's a lovely machine and there are obvious reasons and long-term benefits for those choices. I'll definitely consider purchasing one when the next refresh allows the processor and memory options to be bump…

Agree entirely. I actually think the title would be much more accurate if it were changed to *How coverage of Apple has created the Illusion of Apple Alienating Mac Loyalist' because I've been a mac user since the Mac Plus days and I'm pretty much the definition of loyalist, and for me non of this rings true. My new MacBook Pro 13 is a great machine (and I'm a developer...).

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#409

Post by theuly »

dkonofalski wrote: post #321
vintageseltzer wrote: post #269

After 15 years of doing so, I can no longer tell people that the quality of Apple's products are worth the cost. I waited three years to upgrade from my late-2013 MBP and I see no improvements of value in the new version. The new MBPs have seemingly worse battery life, the RAM is the same, ports I use every day are gone, and now their "portable" laptop requires you to carry around a bunch of adapters and wires. The t…

How is the Apple Watch a joke? It was the best selling wearable device for both series and it has the highest customer satisfaction rating of any wearable. Something like 96% of Apple Watch owners said that they would buy another one.

I think it's the overall market for smart watches? For sure, it's not the next iPhone or iPad in terms of revenue.

Even in the smartwatch category, Apple isn't doing too well. Going from 70% in market share from last year to 41% this year. They're still the market leader, though.

source: http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/26/technology/smartwatch-sales-...

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#410

Post by exergy »

cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #351
lmm wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I did take a close look at the Surface Pro. Sorry, the build quality is nowhere near a MacBook Pro. Shrug, not my experience. > Secondly, I found the touch screen very gimmicky. I tried using it for a week and found that my hand just hurt lifting it up repeatedly and also hated switching context from the keyboard to the screen. Don't force the touchscreen. Just use it when it makes sense. I've found it's a very nat…

> Don't force the touchscreen. Just use it when it makes sense. This is like saying "Don't force the new touch bar on macbook pro. Just use it when it makes sense.". A lot of people are pissed about how useless the touch bar is. You can make the same argument about this but the thing is, they could have done better. There's nothing wrong with people criticizing something that's bad. Sure you can just "NOT use it". Bu…

The difference being that the touchscreen doesn't take away anything, while the touchbar replaces function keys. You could circumvent this by getting the smaller pro, though.

I own an SP3 and the touchscreen is a blessing. Ironically, even more so because the touchpad on the sp3 is crap, but either way, I seem to know my fingers more than mouse pointers on the screen and prefer to touch the screen as often as possible.

It's not for everyone, but for me, I can dual boot Linux on it, write code, still keep MagSafe charging, have a USB port, AND disconnect the keyboard at the end of the way to watch a movie on a kickstand tablet, AND throw it in my bag and forget it's there, for much less money than a macbook. I love the thing to death.

Also, the screen can be cleaned with a cloth or the bottom of your shirt, like most of us do with our phones. That might be annoying but doesn't sound like a deal breaker.

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