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AdNauseam: Fight Back Against Advertising Networks and Privacy Abuse

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Re: AdNauseam: Fight Back Against Advertising Networks and Privacy Abuse

#41

I'm out on this. 1. They say it's legally not click fraud. To me it sounds like regular fraud: "deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain, or to deprive a victim of a legal right". I'm not concerned with breaking the law I just don't want to act in the spirit of it. 2. This could hurt small startups that are very carefully managing an ad budget. They say the market will adjust, but until it does small startups take…

I don't see how 1. applies. People using this plugin are not securing any gain and no one is being deprived of any right -- unless you use it on a website that first makes you explicitly accept to be tracked and served ads in exchange for the content.

Re: AdNauseam: Fight Back Against Advertising Networks and Privacy Abuse

#43
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>3. I dislike activism without clear objectives. I see no list of guidelines here or good behavior that companies could adopt to immediately place them on the side of the good guys. The goal highly specific. It is to make Internet advertising artificially expensive, and it is to make harvested data about users inaccurate. There are no "good guys" on the other side. People shouldn't track me, that one's obvious, but t…

It's not like the ads just appear while you're sitting around doing nothing. You see the ads when you are receiving something with them. The ad companies are paying for your attention with the content you consume.

They are not paying for anything. No one entered an agreement or signed a contract. They are trying to exploit the content in a certain way, and the receiver of the content is free to take counter-measures.

Re: AdNauseam: Fight Back Against Advertising Networks and Privacy Abuse

#44
post #8
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would take a while for the ad industry to adapt to that. Also there might be technical limitations.

I was the one who made the original comment. The ad industry does not have to adopt at all, because they use a bidding system. Just advertisers have to adopt by bidding less. Sophisticated advertisers will automatically do that because they keep track of conversions.

Maybe an auto-clicker could use ABP's acceptable ads filter to focus on reducing the effectiveness of "unacceptable" ads. (But the ad networks are just going to figure out how to detect the clicks and mark them fraudulent anyway.)

Re: AdNauseam: Fight Back Against Advertising Networks and Privacy Abuse

#45

I block all ads, tracking, beacons, etc. because they are now the single largest vector for malware. I use Firefox largely because it's the most hackable browser. I tweak Firefox to do and not do several things: - I don't allow sites to see my history - I don't allow peerconnect - I don't allow WebRTC (shows private address schemas) - I don't allow much JS - I don't allow fingerprinting beyond pure basics - I don't a…

I'll second _tulpa's request. It would be nice to see your configuration for this.

Re: AdNauseam: Fight Back Against Advertising Networks and Privacy Abuse

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like the ads just appear while you're sitting around doing nothing. You see the ads when you are receiving something with them. The ad companies are paying for your attention with the content you consume.

They are not paying for anything. No one entered an agreement or signed a contract. They are trying to exploit the content in a certain way, and the receiver of the content is free to take counter-measures.

They are paying the content providers who are paying you in content.

They are free to take "counter measures". But that doesn't stop the fact that they are paying for both your time and the content.

Re: AdNauseam: Fight Back Against Advertising Networks and Privacy Abuse

#47
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Micropayments have never worked well on the internet, not for technical problems, but likely more that the market isn't really there. I know I just want free stuff and I'm not going to pay to read a news article or blog post no matter how well written or researched. So at the end of the day there is still no viable alternative to advertising supported content. Kill advertising and you'll take the content with it, bec…

I disagree. If you can't fund your content without ads then you have a bad business model. We should kill ads and any content that dies in the collateral is an acceptable loss. Micropayments also don't work because no one has done it well, not because it's inherently not going to work.

I think micro-payments just don't sit well with people psychologically.

Even if you know the totals are going to be tiny, being on a meter just adds mental overhead to every click. And moreover most of the time people don't know if something is worth paying for until they've seen it, and they probably resent paying for some things.

Re: AdNauseam: Fight Back Against Advertising Networks and Privacy Abuse

#48

I'm out on this. 1. They say it's legally not click fraud. To me it sounds like regular fraud: "deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain, or to deprive a victim of a legal right". I'm not concerned with breaking the law I just don't want to act in the spirit of it. 2. This could hurt small startups that are very carefully managing an ad budget. They say the market will adjust, but until it does small startups take…

  > 3. I dislike activism without clear objectives. I see no list of guidelines here or good behavior that companies could adopt to immediately place them on the side of the good guys.
Seems very clear to me: destroy advertising/advertisers. Where do I sign up?

Re: AdNauseam: Fight Back Against Advertising Networks and Privacy Abuse

#49
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding #3, I'm personally 100% against any online advertising in any form. So this punishes those who support it. Ditto for #2. As for #1, I'm not gaining anything, and no one is being deprived for their rights. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there? If anything prosecutors should start with the rampant fraud being committed by companies in the online advertising space before they even think about lo…

Micropayments have never worked well on the internet, not for technical problems, but likely more that the market isn't really there. I know I just want free stuff and I'm not going to pay to read a news article or blog post no matter how well written or researched. So at the end of the day there is still no viable alternative to advertising supported content. Kill advertising and you'll take the content with it, bec…

> I don't like ads, but I like my free content, and ads are an acceptable way of financing it

When looking at that tradeoff most people seem to agree with you (or don't care to think about it), and some people disagree with you.

A note: So if you just feel like you don't care to make this same choice, I'm not talking to you and am just using your comment as a jumping off point. But you seem to be defending the advertising status quo on HN, and if you are then I am talking to you.

I've never found "But if people start making these choices my business model stops working!" be a particularly defensible argument to make. This is maybe the single place online where it is least needed for me to make this point, right?

But apparently not, especially when it's the so-called disruptors who are making it. This is a potentially popular service to provide people at the moment, the ability to protect themselves from their online habits being used to build profiles of them, and it would destroy the incumbent business model (advertising supported content using click tracking). This sounds like classic disruption to me, doing something good for the consumer [1] while opening up a huge gap for a new and inventive business model to fill the gap.

As everyone is no doubt aware at this moment, there is no ethical argument to be made to save this "content" as a whole. The fact we call it "content" at all means no one really needs to say this do they? It is not saving journalism, that is still dying. I'd put better odds on the next business model that emerges saving investigative journalism, because corporate sponsorship was the stupidest idea for saving it possible anyway.

[1] If you think that using personal information built on surveillance in order to influence purchasing decisions is pro-consumer you are lying to yourself. It is effective and profitable. As is combining it with fake reviews and lifestyle marketing using shame and FOMO.

Re: AdNauseam: Fight Back Against Advertising Networks and Privacy Abuse

#50
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding #3, I'm personally 100% against any online advertising in any form. So this punishes those who support it. Ditto for #2. As for #1, I'm not gaining anything, and no one is being deprived for their rights. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there? If anything prosecutors should start with the rampant fraud being committed by companies in the online advertising space before they even think about lo…

Micropayments have never worked well on the internet, not for technical problems, but likely more that the market isn't really there. I know I just want free stuff and I'm not going to pay to read a news article or blog post no matter how well written or researched. So at the end of the day there is still no viable alternative to advertising supported content. Kill advertising and you'll take the content with it, bec…

> Kill advertising and you'll take the content with it, because many of the content producers and curators won't waste their time for no return.

Great! I'd personally love it if they went away. If it's good content, people have definitely shown to be willing to pay for it.

"essentially all of the ad supported sites I visit are diversions" - https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/web/AdSupportedWebD...

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