How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists • Hacker News Board

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#171

Post by imagetic » Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 5:26 PM UTC

TylerE wrote: post #76

DigitalJack wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Just buy something from newegg and call it "workstation." Apple has two things going for them: top notch physical quality laptops and macOs. That's really it. Who cares how shiny a desktop workstation is... ideally you don't even see it. the only reason to buy a desktop from Apple is macOs. And if that doesn't matter to you, why by from apple at all? And for that matter why buy a desktop from anyone when you can…

There are more useful attributes to a well-made desktop system than "shiny". "Quiet" is a big one.

Not really.

The Mac Pro, while insanely quiet for what's inside of it, can't handle high resolution video production and graphics work. The fans peg and heat blasts out the top but the GPUs overheat at 130+ degrees and introduce artifacts into the finished media.

So in the end, the design is flawed. Which is a huge problem now that almost every production camera is 4k or higher now.

Liquid cooling in a PC case is near silent. And the GPU options are more powerful and have the right tools to stay cool. Only you have to put up with Windows which means locking driver versions, scheduling maintenance windows to upgrade edit bays and render machines and working closely with vendors for SAN and 10GbE options so everything keeps working.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#172

Post by jamespo » Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 5:26 PM UTC

_ph_ wrote: post #79

kobeya wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but that's a different point.

No, if he wants to be a replacement, one has to assume he wants to be compatible and keep using the applications he currently uses. Any non-Mac system might be an "alternative" but not a "replacement".

$2k buys a lot of applications

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#173

Post by 72deluxe » Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 5:27 PM UTC

olegkikin wrote: post #121

beat wrote: post #16

My main computer is a five year old 17" MBP. I've upgraded it to the max and done repairs to maintain it. I need the computational power - I use it for programming, photo editing at scale, and recording/mixing music. It would cost me $3000 to replace it with a computer that is not significantly more powerful, has a smaller screen and less I/O functionality, and would be incompatible with my audio interface unless I d…

Why not get a cheap powerful desktop for heavyweight processing, and a cheap lightweight laptop for mobility? $3K is a ridiculous amount of money considering modern options. Examples: Dual Xeon E5-2690 + 64GB RAM + 1TB HDD = $1250 http://www.ebay.com/itm/391654102568 Dual Xeon X5670 + 128GB RAM + 2TB HDD = $1600 http://www.ebay.com/itm/361745717969 Dual Xeon E5-2670 + 128GB RAM + 8TB HDD = $1900 http://www.ebay.com/i…

Great idea. I might get a cheesegrater Mac when my MBP dies and then a cheaper laptop to remote?

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#174

Post by quickben » Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 5:28 PM UTC

dbg31415 wrote: post #39

beat wrote: post #16

My main computer is a five year old 17" MBP. I've upgraded it to the max and done repairs to maintain it. I need the computational power - I use it for programming, photo editing at scale, and recording/mixing music. It would cost me $3000 to replace it with a computer that is not significantly more powerful, has a smaller screen and less I/O functionality, and would be incompatible with my audio interface unless I d…

> It would cost me $3000 to replace it with a computer that is not significantly more powerful, has a smaller screen and less I/O functionality, and would be incompatible with my audio interface unless I daisy-chain multiple adapters to get Firewire. Fuck that, as long as possible. To be fair, with the new Macs you still get to daisy chain adapters... Here's the thing, nobody can take away how great the Macs we have…

If you can build your own, and don't want to stick to the apple ecosystem; the 4 core intel cpu + 970 gfx starts around a thousand: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/VhyP8K

If you can wait until February, AMD Zen is coming out, so no matter which camp (amd/intel) you are in, all prices should go down for the given level of performance.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#175

Post by module0000 » Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 5:28 PM UTC

beat wrote: post #147

muninn_ wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're living in a transitory period as we move from a world of wires and connectors to a wireless world. This is the pain we have to endure as technology is pushed forward. If it were up to the luddites and their obsession with compatibility, a laptop would have a dvd drive, firewire, usb-a, usb-c, thunderbolt, hdmi, dvi, vga, sd, microsd,vga, and display port all in one laptop chassis. Having one single port, that c…

This Luddite has rather a lot of money invested in a professional grade audio interface. Replacing it with modern connectivity would be upwards of a thousand dollars. Ouch. And it works perfectly. Why am I throwing away hardware that I like and trust for the relentless march to the future? Any recording interface more substantial than a headphone jack is wired. It's going to remain that way for a while. Audio is a qu…

> Why am I throwing away hardware that I like and trust for the relentless march to the future?

It's all part of change. It's inconvenient(change) when done well, and absolutely show-stopping when done poorly. Apple took a ham-fisted approach to this, and decided you should go through that right now. Not a lot of choice left to people like you(those with significant hardware investments) beyond using refurb gear, or spending a large sum on a brand new set of hardware and accessories(which will go through this same cycle again in the future).

It kind of all stinks, but there isn't a terrible lot us little people can do about it.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#176

Post by kristofferR » Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 5:29 PM UTC

cookiecaper wrote: post #101

weaksauce wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of affordable storage in the retina and up laptops and even desktops has been a deal breaker for me. I am on a five year old mbp and am seriously considering a hackintosh to be a daily driver. That's a whole big can of worms though.

Can you identify specifically the critical features of OS X that aren't replicable with a reasonable amount of effort on other systems? I've spent considerable time using all 3 major OSes as daily drivers and while each platform has perks, I've never felt a strong commitment to OS X for daily use. I'm curious what many people feel is so crucial about it that they'd consider switching to the massively unstable Hackint…

macOS is great because it combines a flawless UNIX system (with homebrew, the only package manager I've been satisfied with) and a nice GUI with apps that work/look great by default.

Linux has a massive lack of good apps. Simple things like a decent calendar app on Linux doesn't seem to exist.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#177

Post by quickben » Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 5:30 PM UTC

TylerE wrote: post #76

DigitalJack wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Just buy something from newegg and call it "workstation." Apple has two things going for them: top notch physical quality laptops and macOs. That's really it. Who cares how shiny a desktop workstation is... ideally you don't even see it. the only reason to buy a desktop from Apple is macOs. And if that doesn't matter to you, why by from apple at all? And for that matter why buy a desktop from anyone when you can…

There are more useful attributes to a well-made desktop system than "shiny". "Quiet" is a big one.

Replacing the stock heatsink with something that is overengineered for air (Phantecks , etc), results in minimal need for fan speed, and overall reduction in noise levels.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#178

Post by zdw » Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 5:30 PM UTC

sqeaky wrote: post #152

ewzimm wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The high-end processor on the 2011 Macbook Pro was the 2860QM. Current options on the 15" are the 6700HQ, which is about 1% faster on single threads and 14% faster on multiple threads, and the 6920HQ, which is about 23% faster on single threads and 36% faster on multiple threads.

For the C++ codebase I work with my 6700 compiles 4.5 MLOC of code in a little less than half the time my 2nd gen i7 does. Hardly scientific, but the 6th i7s are really fast.

This is probably due to the improved storage iops of a PCIe flash drive more than the CPU.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#179

Post by module0000 » Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 5:30 PM UTC

electic wrote: post #37

beat wrote: post #16

My main computer is a five year old 17" MBP. I've upgraded it to the max and done repairs to maintain it. I need the computational power - I use it for programming, photo editing at scale, and recording/mixing music. It would cost me $3000 to replace it with a computer that is not significantly more powerful, has a smaller screen and less I/O functionality, and would be incompatible with my audio interface unless I d…

I did take a close look at the Surface Pro. Sorry, the build quality is nowhere near a MacBook Pro. Secondly, I found the touch screen very gimmicky. I tried using it for a week and found that my hand just hurt lifting it up repeatedly and also hated switching context from the keyboard to the screen. Not to mention, the screen was full of smudge marks after awhile. To be honest, I really found myself using the keyboa…

> Not to mention, the screen was full of smudge marks after awhile.

This! I can't even get to the other complaints myself because this one triggers my OCD almost immediately into the experience.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#180

Post by phaed » Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 5:30 PM UTC

jungturk wrote: post #115

bsenftner wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XCode is the #1 reason I was never able to fully commit to a Mac. Hell, I was a Mac beta tester back in '83! (At age 17.) I've owned one, and used them as my main email machine for decades, but I never could wrap my head around the IDE poverty that is XCode. Even when I wrote Mac software, I did not use XCode, or whatever they called it back then. These days, I still have a Mac for email and it is my main system for…

I'm confused why the presence of Xcode would prevent one from using a Mac with whatever IDE they preferred. Atom, IntelliJ, VSCode, Sublime, VIM, etc... all work just fine on Macs.

Call me when "brew install visualstudio" works.