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How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

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Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#121

Post by olegkikin »

beat wrote: post #16

My main computer is a five year old 17" MBP. I've upgraded it to the max and done repairs to maintain it. I need the computational power - I use it for programming, photo editing at scale, and recording/mixing music. It would cost me $3000 to replace it with a computer that is not significantly more powerful, has a smaller screen and less I/O functionality, and would be incompatible with my audio interface unless I d…

Why not get a cheap powerful desktop for heavyweight processing, and a cheap lightweight laptop for mobility? $3K is a ridiculous amount of money considering modern options.

Examples:

Dual Xeon E5-2690 + 64GB RAM + 1TB HDD = $1250

http://www.ebay.com/itm/391654102568

Dual Xeon X5670 + 128GB RAM + 2TB HDD = $1600

http://www.ebay.com/itm/361745717969

Dual Xeon E5-2670 + 128GB RAM + 8TB HDD = $1900

http://www.ebay.com/itm/172218395641

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#122

Post by beat »

iplaw wrote: post #44
beat wrote: post #16

My main computer is a five year old 17" MBP. I've upgraded it to the max and done repairs to maintain it. I need the computational power - I use it for programming, photo editing at scale, and recording/mixing music. It would cost me $3000 to replace it with a computer that is not significantly more powerful, has a smaller screen and less I/O functionality, and would be incompatible with my audio interface unless I d…

Same boat as you. I have a late-2011 17" MBP with an i7, maxed out RAM, and a 512GB SSD. I think that the graphics processor is starting to fail and I'm starting to experience some very odd DNS-related issues with the OS. I am very unsatisfied with my replacement options.

My GPU failed. The Apple stores offers (or at least offered) a $300 "We will fix anything wrong with your MBP" deal. They replaced the motherboard. Now, that is a great example of "Why buy Apple?" You think I'm gonna get a deal like that from Dell?

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#123

Post by an_account »

stuckagain wrote: post #107
smoser wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TB2->FW + TB3->TB2 in theory. http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD464LL/A/apple-thunderbol...

Exactly the chain of adapters that beat was complaining of.

FireWire has been dead for years, it's time for an upgrade.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#124

Post by muninn_ »

stuckagain wrote: post #107
smoser wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TB2->FW + TB3->TB2 in theory. http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD464LL/A/apple-thunderbol...

Exactly the chain of adapters that beat was complaining of.

We're living in a transitory period as we move from a world of wires and connectors to a wireless world. This is the pain we have to endure as technology is pushed forward.

If it were up to the luddites and their obsession with compatibility, a laptop would have a dvd drive, firewire, usb-a, usb-c, thunderbolt, hdmi, dvi, vga, sd, microsd,vga, and display port all in one laptop chassis.

Having one single port, that can do all those things and do them just as well, is a far preferable alternative. Couple that with the future transition to wireless-only technology, and we're on our way to the future.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#125

Post by rubyn00bie »

The big problem with Apples professional lineup is it's lack of GPU upgrades and power. Along with supporting the GPU manufactures by adopting standards and improving them.

I'm tired of them and others blaming intel. x86 is no longer where huge increases in computing power will really come from-- we all clearly see this due to the laws of physics. Parallelizing computation for all its problems, is the future, and GPUs are dominating in this area. From video rendering, machine learning... and I'm sure most of us would drool over a web server that could use a GPU to speed up requests or a compiler that would use it to speed up compilation.

But GPUs are "not apple," because GPUs are not thin and need to be replaceable. This is antithetical to their whole desktop division.

This glaring blind spot is one of the many reasons I'm a depressed mac user these days. If I want to do cutting edge things, I cannot do them on a mac. Imagine how good the new MBP would be with a GTX 1080 in it? Or a Mac Pro with two Titan X Pascal cards? A Mac mini that supported even one full size graphics card. The iMac? Well that's a relic (in my humble opinion) but the all-in-one does still have a niche it serves.

Also, the fact Apple continuously and blatantly ignores gaming on the Mac this will likely be true. Because gamers also upgrade more aggressively than most desktop users and they help drive innovation as a result. Gaming on the Mac is still a joke. Ports are often late, poorly done, and underperform compared to their PC brethren. I'd rather game on Linux than Mac (no offense to my Linux using brothers and sisters) but I think that's crazy.

I said this once before. What Apple needs to do is make the mac lineup based modular components. E.g. "Here is a box you can slide a video card into ('made for mac if course' with approval to make sure driver hell doesn't happen like Windoes) it then can fit into a Mac mini, iMac, or multiple of them into the Mac Pro. Same for PCI cards in general. This then makes things more user friendly, power users then can upgrade again, and the 3rd party industry can start making for mac.

There are plenty of other ways to innovate-- I'd love a dual socket Mac Pro like the old G4 towers. M2 support. Not looking like a trash can (okay I'm just being cheeky now so I'll stop)...

It's not that innovation can't happen on the desktop it's that Apple isn't, to use their own words, "brave enough to."

... What happened to the crazy ones?

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#126

Post by rev12 »

philfrasty wrote: post #71

Been an Apple customer for the last 20+ years. Never have been so happy as a PRO user. (Really don't get all the „beginning of the end“ blabla)

There are many different types of professionals. The fact that the current lineup fills your needs puts you in a good position.

Unfortunately, the current lineup falls short for a good deal of many other professionals in ways that you likely can't understand as you've stated in your comment.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#127

Post by curun1r »

beat wrote: post #52
superninja234 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly doubt it would cost $3000 to replace your 5 year old macbook.

The cheapest I can get into a 15" MBP with a terabyte of storage (and I need a terabyte) is $2999.

Only if you need the touchbar. The non-touchbar model can be had for $2599, including the horribly overpriced 1 TB upgrade. If you can figure out how to use an external drive (Samsung T3 is $349, tiny and performance should be roughly on par with an internal drive), you can knock another $250 off that and still have the 256 GB that comes with the standard configuration. As a plus, the T3 is trivially upgradable when storage prices inevitably fall over the next couple of years. Even if you chose a Mac alternative with user-accessible internal storage, the process of swapping out the drive would be somewhat involved and require an OS re-install.

I've never understood the obsession with having a ton of internal storage in your laptop. I'd rather buy external storage since it allows me to upgrade my laptop independent of my data and makes migrations easier. It also saves money given how much cheaper external storage is and becomes over the life of the laptop.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#128

Post by pilsetnieks »

coldtea wrote: post #77
beat wrote: post #16

My main computer is a five year old 17" MBP. I've upgraded it to the max and done repairs to maintain it. I need the computational power - I use it for programming, photo editing at scale, and recording/mixing music. It would cost me $3000 to replace it with a computer that is not significantly more powerful, has a smaller screen and less I/O functionality, and would be incompatible with my audio interface unless I d…

> My main computer is a five year old 17" MBP. I've upgraded it to the max and done repairs to maintain it. I need the computational power - I use it for programming, photo editing at scale, and recording/mixing music. It would cost me $3000 to replace it with a computer that is not significantly more powerful Compared to a five year old 17"? More like double the power. And unbelievably faster SSD (even if you have a…

> it will be nowhere near as fast as the ones in current MPBr unless you pay top dollar

Even with top dollar you cannot squeeze more than ~550 MB/s out of SATA3, compared to the ostensibly 2+ GB/s in the new MBPrs with NVMe.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#129

Post by falcolas »

aninhumer wrote: post #117
ohyoutravel wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like the touchscreen on my Surface Pro and don't find it gimmicky. It's very useful, especially to scroll while reading an article, or to use it in "tablet mode," or just to hit buttons on command prompts. I don't use it for everything, but it is good at making small efficiency improvements in my overall life with my computer. Not accusing you of anything, but I suspect if Apple released a laptop with a touc…

>It's very useful, especially to scroll while reading an article I don't understand why someone using a laptop would want to scroll by lifting their arm up to the screen, rather than just moving two fingers on the touchpad where their hand is already resting.

When reading more than few lines of text on the screen, my hands do not tend to remain on the keyboard. They instead drift up the sides of the computer, making the screen closer than the touchpad.

Not to mention, having the option to use both certainly doesn't harm anyone.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#130

Post by electic »

lhopki01 wrote: post #113
electic wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but you have to lift your arm up. It is far far faster to scroll through a web page with the touchpad.

Lift your arm up? I can rest my arm on the desk and have my thumb in the lower right corner of the screen. It's actually much nicer than having my hand in front of me slightly raised to have two fingers to scroll with. Try it now.

Yes, but then you just have one hand on the keyboard. So now to type, you have to bring your right hand down, and resume typing. The distance there is greater vs. using the touchpad. I just have to flick my wrist and boom, I am on the touch pad scrolling. On Surface, assuming I hate the touchpad and want to use the screen, I have to take my hand off the keyboard, put it on the screen and start scrolling.
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