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If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

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Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#51

Post by jschwartzi »

phd514 wrote: post #35
brownbat wrote: post #21

The most moving and informed coverage of the US education system I've heard have all been through This American Life.[0][1][2][3] Ok, there's an easy four hours of content to listen to. Enjoy! The short takeaway for me was basically that local funding through property taxes is a terrible idea if you want anything approaching fairness. If you can afford to live in an area with high property taxes, the US school system…

The problem with that conclusion is that some of the highest-funded public schools in the country such as DC are among the worst performers. Funding is not the sole (or even most important) determinant of quality in education.

Do you have a breakdown for how much of DC schools funding makes it to the classroom and to teachers? It's my understanding that administrators soak up a huge amount of budget in many districts.

Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#52

Post by jschwartzi »

hash-set wrote: post #41
brownbat wrote: post #21

The most moving and informed coverage of the US education system I've heard have all been through This American Life.[0][1][2][3] Ok, there's an easy four hours of content to listen to. Enjoy! The short takeaway for me was basically that local funding through property taxes is a terrible idea if you want anything approaching fairness. If you can afford to live in an area with high property taxes, the US school system…

Not true in MN--you can open enroll your kids in any district. You may not get the exact school you want due to demographics, but it's still a valid counter-example. By the way, why do you think wealthier people shouldn't get more advantages in life? I'm all for trying to pull people up by their bootstraps, but we can't just level everything out in some misguided attempt at 'fairness.' You will never achieve that fai…

> By the way, why do you think wealthier people shouldn't get more advantages in life?

He's not saying that. The idea he's espousing is closer to the idea that there are lots of talented kids in poor districts that get completely left behind because they live in a poor area. The only way to solve that is to provide some funding, and funding is scarce in poor districts.

Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#53

Post by throwaway7767 »

sjg007 wrote: post #38
brownbat wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their biggest financial problem was probably their impulse to overspend on big ticket items Well, in part they had different accounting of their assets, since the wife viewed his social capital (as a cofounder of a massive biotech conglomerate) as a marketable asset, while his pride drove him to refuse to redeem that and yet spend as if he had access to it anyway. Walter's pride was not only his tragic flaw, but al…

I didn't understand why the cofounder biotech conglomerate was necessary, except to give Walter and out he would not take and say 'hey he is smart but choosing a life of crime'

It was necessary in order to present some of Walter White's personality traits - he takes his independence seriously, and he can be very stubborn. It sets the stage for later character development.

Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#54

Post by coldpie »

hash-set wrote: post #41
brownbat wrote: post #21

The most moving and informed coverage of the US education system I've heard have all been through This American Life.[0][1][2][3] Ok, there's an easy four hours of content to listen to. Enjoy! The short takeaway for me was basically that local funding through property taxes is a terrible idea if you want anything approaching fairness. If you can afford to live in an area with high property taxes, the US school system…

Not true in MN--you can open enroll your kids in any district. You may not get the exact school you want due to demographics, but it's still a valid counter-example. By the way, why do you think wealthier people shouldn't get more advantages in life? I'm all for trying to pull people up by their bootstraps, but we can't just level everything out in some misguided attempt at 'fairness.' You will never achieve that fai…

> By the way, why do you think wealthier people shouldn't get more advantages in life?

When you're talking about fundamental education of your population, this is a pretty short-sighted argument. Under-education means fewer skilled workers and more bad decision making, both of which will have an impact on Mr. Rich. Mr. Rich has a personal interest in ensuring a good education for everyone.

Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#55

Post by lintiness »

brownbat wrote: post #21

The most moving and informed coverage of the US education system I've heard have all been through This American Life.[0][1][2][3] Ok, there's an easy four hours of content to listen to. Enjoy! The short takeaway for me was basically that local funding through property taxes is a terrible idea if you want anything approaching fairness. If you can afford to live in an area with high property taxes, the US school system…

property taxes in the suburbs of denver are on the order of .5% a year. compare that to the suburbs of chicago where they're north of 2% a year. the school quality and education provided are AT LEAST SIMILAR.

the difference in cost is a product of two things: pensions and legacy costs (overly rich in chicago), and population growth. chicago has become a game of musical chairs where the last man standing has to pay the retired teachers. north shore property values reflect this reality.

Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#56

Post by jschwartzi »

cmdrfred wrote: post #48
hdctambien wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teachers don't work 1/4 of the year like football players only work 3 hours a week for 16 weeks. There's a lot that has to happen (work) when the students aren't in school so that teaching can happen.

So they are required to be at school for 8 hour days year round?

More like 12-hour days while school is in session.

Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#57

Post by Pharylon »

hash-set wrote: post #41
brownbat wrote: post #21

The most moving and informed coverage of the US education system I've heard have all been through This American Life.[0][1][2][3] Ok, there's an easy four hours of content to listen to. Enjoy! The short takeaway for me was basically that local funding through property taxes is a terrible idea if you want anything approaching fairness. If you can afford to live in an area with high property taxes, the US school system…

Not true in MN--you can open enroll your kids in any district. You may not get the exact school you want due to demographics, but it's still a valid counter-example. By the way, why do you think wealthier people shouldn't get more advantages in life? I'm all for trying to pull people up by their bootstraps, but we can't just level everything out in some misguided attempt at 'fairness.' You will never achieve that fai…

> By the way, why do you think wealthier people shouldn't get more advantages in life?

Wealthy people will always have nicer cars and better vacations and bigger houses, but that doesn't mean the children of poor people should be relegated to terrible schools where they'll have no future.

Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#58

Post by ohyes »

hash-set wrote: post #41
brownbat wrote: post #21

The most moving and informed coverage of the US education system I've heard have all been through This American Life.[0][1][2][3] Ok, there's an easy four hours of content to listen to. Enjoy! The short takeaway for me was basically that local funding through property taxes is a terrible idea if you want anything approaching fairness. If you can afford to live in an area with high property taxes, the US school system…

Not true in MN--you can open enroll your kids in any district. You may not get the exact school you want due to demographics, but it's still a valid counter-example. By the way, why do you think wealthier people shouldn't get more advantages in life? I'm all for trying to pull people up by their bootstraps, but we can't just level everything out in some misguided attempt at 'fairness.' You will never achieve that fai…

Wealthier people do have more advantages in life. It's tautological to the extent that it describes what it is to be wealthy.

We're talking about public education though, ideally, public education would have a universally high standard, and making funding for public education based on something like property values ensures that in certain areas it will be underfunded.

So it's really about whether we take universal public education seriously or if we're just providing education to some and a state sponsored daycare service to others.

Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#59

Post by ryandrake »

hash-set wrote: post #41
brownbat wrote: post #21

The most moving and informed coverage of the US education system I've heard have all been through This American Life.[0][1][2][3] Ok, there's an easy four hours of content to listen to. Enjoy! The short takeaway for me was basically that local funding through property taxes is a terrible idea if you want anything approaching fairness. If you can afford to live in an area with high property taxes, the US school system…

Not true in MN--you can open enroll your kids in any district. You may not get the exact school you want due to demographics, but it's still a valid counter-example. By the way, why do you think wealthier people shouldn't get more advantages in life? I'm all for trying to pull people up by their bootstraps, but we can't just level everything out in some misguided attempt at 'fairness.' You will never achieve that fai…

Yes, the wealthy will always find ways to gain an advantage. That doesn't mean society should design the system to given an inherent advantage to them from the start. At least make the system fair and make the wealthy have to find a loophole.

Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#60

Post by lintiness »

Pharylon wrote: post #57
hash-set wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true in MN--you can open enroll your kids in any district. You may not get the exact school you want due to demographics, but it's still a valid counter-example. By the way, why do you think wealthier people shouldn't get more advantages in life? I'm all for trying to pull people up by their bootstraps, but we can't just level everything out in some misguided attempt at 'fairness.' You will never achieve that fai…

> By the way, why do you think wealthier people shouldn't get more advantages in life? Wealthy people will always have nicer cars and better vacations and bigger houses, but that doesn't mean the children of poor people should be relegated to terrible schools where they'll have no future.

sorry, but schools are a lot less important than families.
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