Excessive load on NTP servers • Hacker News Board

Re: Excessive load on NTP servers

#11

Post by cronjobber » Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 2:37 PM UTC

pooper wrote: post #7

AlphaWeaver wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App Store vetting varies wildly and tends to trend towards more close introspection on smaller apps. Well known apps such as Facebook Messenger and Snapchat for example can get an update reviewed and pushed out faster than a standalone developer.

I think Apple should require app vendors to just submit source code and build instructions and have Apple just build it. It'd be harder to pull off on Google Play Store but I think Apple could make this happen if they wanted to.

There are many things Apple or Google could do to encourage the development of new mobile ecosystems outside the duopoly.

Re: Excessive load on NTP servers

#12

Post by Declanomous » Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 2:38 PM UTC

For whatever reason, ntppool.org is blocked at my work.

And of course, you don't get the page that states why when the website is served via https. Not that I need to see the page to know it was either blocked for "hacking" or "entertainment", and I'm guessing it's not entertainment.

Edit: This probably explains why our clocks have been off by 45 minutes since Monday. I guess it will be entertaining to see how long it takes for IT to figure this one out.

Re: Excessive load on NTP servers

#13

Post by LoneWolf » Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 2:38 PM UTC

pooper wrote: post #7

AlphaWeaver wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App Store vetting varies wildly and tends to trend towards more close introspection on smaller apps. Well known apps such as Facebook Messenger and Snapchat for example can get an update reviewed and pushed out faster than a standalone developer.

I think Apple should require app vendors to just submit source code and build instructions and have Apple just build it. It'd be harder to pull off on Google Play Store but I think Apple could make this happen if they wanted to.

For me requiring that would be the same as kicking me off the platform.

Re: Excessive load on NTP servers

#14

Post by drzaiusapelord » Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 2:41 PM UTC

gbrown_ wrote: post #5

For all of Apple's App Store vetting one would think this kind of behavior would have thrown up a flag at some point no?

Oh, if my app did this I'd get in all sorts of trouble and I imagine never approved by the app store. I suspect Facebook properties just play by a different set of rules, unfortunately for those of us who believe in meritocracy and fairness.

edit: snapchat apparantly isn't a facebook property, but it has very deep pockets and as such my comment still stands.

Re: Excessive load on NTP servers

#15

Post by profmonocle » Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 2:41 PM UTC

lima wrote: post #10

Worst part is that they did not bother to use a vendor zone.

Indeed. This is a pretty clear misuse of the NTP pool.

> You must absolutely not use the default pool.ntp.org zone names as the default configuration in your application or appliance.

- http://www.pool.ntp.org/en/vendors.html#vendor-zone

Hopefully they were just unaware of the vendor zone policy.

Re: Excessive load on NTP servers

#16

Post by ryanlol » Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 2:44 PM UTC

Declanomous wrote: post #12

For whatever reason, ntppool.org is blocked at my work. And of course, you don't get the page that states why when the website is served via https. Not that I need to see the page to know it was either blocked for "hacking" or "entertainment", and I'm guessing it's not entertainment. Edit: This probably explains why our clocks have been off by 45 minutes since Monday. I guess it will be entertaining to see how long i…

Gambling would be my guess.

Re: Excessive load on NTP servers

#17

Post by dan1234 » Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 2:46 PM UTC

acqq wrote: post #9

easytiger wrote: post #2

Wait.. they are saying the app itself is making NTP requests? > Confirmed - starting up the iOS Snapchat app does a lookup to the domains you listed, and then sends NTP to every unique IP. Around 35-60 different IPs. Hmm. Is that a fraud prevention thing or something? No way on earth a user app should be getting its own time

> Is that a fraud prevention thing or something? See my other post here, and the problems in the (third party) iOS NTP library "features" and its use. There "createAssociations" in that library without any parameters contacts all the IPs behind the big domain list of the NTP servers! And according to the forum every IP is contacted -- behind one server name there are 3-4 servers in the DNS in this case, I get 31 serv…

Just to be clear, this is a 3rd party library not part of iOS itself.

Re: Excessive load on NTP servers

#18

Post by monatron » Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 2:46 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #14

gbrown_ wrote: post #5

For all of Apple's App Store vetting one would think this kind of behavior would have thrown up a flag at some point no?

Oh, if my app did this I'd get in all sorts of trouble and I imagine never approved by the app store. I suspect Facebook properties just play by a different set of rules, unfortunately for those of us who believe in meritocracy and fairness. edit: snapchat apparantly isn't a facebook property, but it has very deep pockets and as such my comment still stands.

Snapchat is not a Facebook property. Nor do I think Apple has resources allocated to review a library used by any app to facilitate if queries on the ntppool are kosher.

Re: Excessive load on NTP servers

#19

Post by mrweasel » Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 2:46 PM UTC

acqq wrote: post #8

According to the forum, the pattern matched this third-party library: https://github.com/jbenet/ios-ntp Specifically, all the servers(!) from here are contacted: https://github.com/jbenet/ios-ntp/blob/master/ios-ntp-lib/Ne... Note that the library author wrote: "ios-ntp is often (mostly?) used to make sure someone hasn't fiddled with the system clock. The complications involved in using multiple servers and averaging…

I think it's pretty safe to assume that the developers have no idea that things like vendor zones exists. NTP, like DNS or SMTP, is ubiquitous infrastructure, not something the average developer sets aside time to understand.

Re: Excessive load on NTP servers

#20

Post by profmonocle » Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 2:48 PM UTC

gbrown_ wrote: post #5

For all of Apple's App Store vetting one would think this kind of behavior would have thrown up a flag at some point no?

This really isn't the sort of thing that would show up on an App Store review. The tests aren't done by engineers, so something's only going to get caught if it's noticeable by the user or gets caught by automated tools. (e.g. use of private APIs.)

Excessive NTP queries aren't going to cause noticeable issues on the device or on Apple's test network, especially with only one or two people testing simultaneously.