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If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

bloomberg.com

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Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#11

Post by tremon »

bko wrote: post #6

> In the U.S. and Canada, teachers are often underpaid—and many have quit the profession because they couldn't make a decent living Is there a source for this? I often hear similar notions lamenting the demise of US education spending but from what I can tell, the US spends more than most other countries per student. And spending has been growing in practically every respect > This graph shows that average education…

I often hear similar notions lamenting the demise of US education spending but from what I can tell, the US spends more than most other countries per student

Spending is not the same as teacher pay. See [1] for a source:

There was a time when it — literally — paid to be a teacher. Unfortunately, that was 60 years ago. In 1940 the average male employee with four or more years of college who did not teach K–12 earned 3.6 percent less than the average K–12 male teacher. [By 2000] the average male with four years of college made a whopping 60.4 percent more than the average male teacher. When the average earnings of male and female teachers are combined and compared with the average pay of all non-teachers with at least four years of college, the difference is 53.5 percent in the year 2000. This actually understates the pay gap because a large proportion of teachers have master's degrees, making them more educated than their comparison group.

[1] http://www.nea.org/home/14052.htm

Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#13

Post by allengeorge »

bko wrote: post #6

> In the U.S. and Canada, teachers are often underpaid—and many have quit the profession because they couldn't make a decent living Is there a source for this? I often hear similar notions lamenting the demise of US education spending but from what I can tell, the US spends more than most other countries per student. And spending has been growing in practically every respect > This graph shows that average education…

What's the source for claiming that teachers are underpaid in Canada?

Here's an article (admittedly from 2012) on teachers salaries in Ontario: ‪http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/education/anato...

More recent reports (from the shrill National Post) claim an average salary of almost 87K for secondary school teachers, but they don't state their source information.

Also consider that teachers - like other public sector unions - are one of the last few sectors to get a defined benefit pension plan, a luxury that few others will ever have.

Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#14

Post by humanrebar »

the-dude wrote: post #7
bko wrote: post #6

> In the U.S. and Canada, teachers are often underpaid—and many have quit the profession because they couldn't make a decent living Is there a source for this? I often hear similar notions lamenting the demise of US education spending but from what I can tell, the US spends more than most other countries per student. And spending has been growing in practically every respect > This graph shows that average education…

I thought it was telling that in 'Breaking Bad' the chemistry teacher needs a second job at a carwash. And nobody seems surprised or finds it odd.

He had extra expenses due to having a special needs son. His wife was pregnant and presumably not working at the time. Also, they probably had too nice of a house if they had those other financial pressures.

Their biggest financial problem was probably their impulse to overspend on big ticket items "because my family is worth it". If I recall correctly, his wife pressures Walter to go to an oncologist that wasn't on their plan. In general, teachers tend to have better than average healthcare options. Chemotherapy for newly discovered cancer is almost always covered. If it's not, local news stations would love a story about a local science teacher who gets cancer that the big bad insurance company won't cover.

Me extrapolating here, but it's possible that they also spent big on different off-plan options for their son.

Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#15

Post by brownbat »

humanrebar wrote: post #14
the-dude wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was telling that in 'Breaking Bad' the chemistry teacher needs a second job at a carwash. And nobody seems surprised or finds it odd.

He had extra expenses due to having a special needs son. His wife was pregnant and presumably not working at the time. Also, they probably had too nice of a house if they had those other financial pressures. Their biggest financial problem was probably their impulse to overspend on big ticket items "because my family is worth it". If I recall correctly, his wife pressures Walter to go to an oncologist that wasn't on…

> Their biggest financial problem was probably their impulse to overspend on big ticket items

Well, in part they had different accounting of their assets, since the wife viewed his social capital (as a cofounder of a massive biotech conglomerate) as a marketable asset, while his pride drove him to refuse to redeem that and yet spend as if he had access to it anyway.

Walter's pride was not only his tragic flaw, but also a significant financial liability.

Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#16

Post by mabbo »

allengeorge wrote: post #13
bko wrote: post #6

> In the U.S. and Canada, teachers are often underpaid—and many have quit the profession because they couldn't make a decent living Is there a source for this? I often hear similar notions lamenting the demise of US education spending but from what I can tell, the US spends more than most other countries per student. And spending has been growing in practically every respect > This graph shows that average education…

What's the source for claiming that teachers are underpaid in Canada? Here's an article (admittedly from 2012) on teachers salaries in Ontario: ‪ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/education/anato... More recent reports (from the shrill National Post) claim an average salary of almost 87K for secondary school teachers, but they don't state their source information. Also consider that teachers - like other p…

> teachers - like other public sector unions - are one of the last few sectors to get a defined benefit pension plan

Just to clear up a misconception, teachers get a great pension, but (in Ontario at least) they put 10-13% of they're base salary into that pension plan for their entire careers. Anyone who invests that much money into their retirement will do well.

Also, the Ontario teachers pension plan is one of the best investment groups in the world. Many years they see 20+% returns. They own everything. Sports teams, malls, airports- they own the channel tunnel!

Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#17

Post by gbog »

pjc50 wrote: post #8
bko wrote: post #6

> In the U.S. and Canada, teachers are often underpaid—and many have quit the profession because they couldn't make a decent living Is there a source for this? I often hear similar notions lamenting the demise of US education spending but from what I can tell, the US spends more than most other countries per student. And spending has been growing in practically every respect > This graph shows that average education…

Administrative staff and sports, I think. http://247wallst.com/special-report/2016/09/20/the-highest-p...

Very uncommon opinion (I'm the only one I know to hold it): we should not spend one dime more for sport, especially in education. Kid have a minimal need for physical activities which can be easily fulfilled with some gymnastic, but we are in an age where having muscle is pretty useless.

Sport is a recent concept invented by the British idle cast, as a way to spend time and money. The world do not have this luxury right now. We need to spend money on education.

By the way, an analysis of the two longest civilisations (Jewish and Chinese) show that both have been obsessed with education, and both did never have a particularly strong focus on "sports".

Maybe in one century it descendants will count how much of our resources we spent in nothing and will laugh (and cry).

Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#18

Post by yummyfajitas »

ceejay wrote: post #12

First, in the US I think we need to convince a substantial chunk of the population that it's not religion that will solve our problems, but better education.

Probably you should start by providing evidence of this. Most of the evidence I've seen suggests we are far past the point of diminishing returns on education, and we should have less education rather than more.

Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#19

Post by sehr »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #18
ceejay wrote: post #12

First, in the US I think we need to convince a substantial chunk of the population that it's not religion that will solve our problems, but better education.

Probably you should start by providing evidence of this. Most of the evidence I've seen suggests we are far past the point of diminishing returns on education, and we should have less education rather than more.

note they said "better", not "more"...

Re: If the U.S. Won't Pay Its Teachers, China Will

#20

Post by [deleted] »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #18
ceejay wrote: post #12

First, in the US I think we need to convince a substantial chunk of the population that it's not religion that will solve our problems, but better education.

Probably you should start by providing evidence of this. Most of the evidence I've seen suggests we are far past the point of diminishing returns on education, and we should have less education rather than more.

[deleted]
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