9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them • Hacker News Board

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#41

Post by dagw » Mon, Dec 19, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #17

dagw wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But would his wife be able to find a job there? Moving across the country so that he could get a low paying job, while his wife instead ends either unemployed or with a much worse job than the one she currently has is hardly an optimal solution. By the sound of it they are making just about enough money to get by as it is, so uprooting the entire family in search of something else is a pretty high risk strategy,

Maybe he should move, find something, and let the wife follow once that situation stabilizes. I know a number of people who's father worked in the gulf and came home twice a year - they turned out just fine. My dad lives in Vegas (that's where his family is) and works in CA, driving across the desert twice a week. My most recent hire moved from Chennai to Pune for work. Trump wants to build a giand wall of ice and ma…

Or "A subset (of unknow size) of 9M American men in prime working age find that not working is currently their best option, but cannot admit this to anyone (even themselves) due to the social stigma attached, and it's doing terrible things to their psyche".

I bet if this dude got up tomorrow and declared to the world "I am, for the time being, an unemployed stay at home dad and not ashamed of this" that he would not only feel a lot better about himself, but his family life would end up being a lot happier as well. Who knows, perhaps his friends won't even end up shunning him.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#42

Post by DashRattlesnake » Mon, Dec 19, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

M4v3R wrote: post #30

DashRattlesnake wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel sympathy for the author, but at the same time one thing that I miss from the article is whether he tried to raise his qualifications in any way. Did he try other market segments? Picked up any courses? Broadened his education in any way in the time he was unemployed? Raising qualifications usually costs money. He's tried when he had work. When he didn't it sounds like money was so tight and stress to high th…

> Every day involves endlessly scrolling through a list of jobs on Indeed.com and applying here and there with full knowledge that 99 percent of the time, I’ll never hear back. That means he is literally wasting time, which he could use in other, more productive ways. Sorry, but if I would be 99 percent sure that something I do will bring me 0 benefits, I would stop and do something else. If you don't have money to r…

> That means he is literally wasting time, which he could use in other, more productive ways.

It's easy to judge someone from a distance.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#43

Post by shams93 » Mon, Dec 19, 2016, 4:30 PM UTC

vthallam wrote: post #29

cijt wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've met a lot of managers who "couldn't" find anyone to hire. What they usually mean is "they can't find an employee in the location they want, with the credentials they want, with the skills they want, at the salary they want, who's been trained by someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If/when employers loosen one or more of these constraints, candidates show right up. Like everyone, I prefer to g…

This wouldn't work unless the employer we are talking about is a software/tech company where they can hire remote/setup a office with very less money. On the other side, people who work on industries which are located on certain areas has to move there to be placed.

Yeah except the writer lives in silicon valley already. You would think his location is ideal but this speaks to the level of age discrimination in our society. And the tremendous waste of human resources.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#44

Post by mcguire » Mon, Dec 19, 2016, 4:31 PM UTC

tjic wrote: post #23

arcanus wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a highly overconstrained search Yes and no. It can speak to structural inefficiencies in the economy. For instance, I am a Computational Scientist with a decade of experience in scientific research, publications, etc. It would be a massive waste of my training to be working in an unrelated field, for instance. Underemployment is a very real thing, and it hurts the entire economy. We as a society have a vest…

> It would be a massive waste of my training to be working in an unrelated field This is an example of what I'm talking about. What's more of a waste of your training? To be work in a career field only 60% overlapping with your training, or to be unemployed (with 0% overlap) ?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Prasher

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#45

Post by criddell » Mon, Dec 19, 2016, 4:32 PM UTC

hartator wrote: post #9

> That’s when the distraction starts. I promise myself, just a quick glance at Twitter to see what’s going on in the world, and then I look up and it’s 1:15 in the afternoon. Twitter is my heroin — it’s endless content, and if I’m bored by one tweet, I just go on to the next one. I think the danger of unlimited news is understated. The addiction is as bad as other forms of drugs. Ok, maybe not as bad as heroin, but I…

I think you're right.

Earlier this year, I read about the book Deep Work in a comment thread on HN. I bought the book and read it pretty quickly (it's an easy read) and it really resonated with me.

The author, Cal Newport wrote a piece a couple of days ago on digital minimalism that I think the author of the vox article should read:

http://calnewport.com/blog/2016/12/18/on-digital-minimalism/

My interpretation is that by compulsively refreshing Twitter (or HN), you're giving away your most valuable assets - time and attention. I'm working on spending my time more wisely and reading Deep Work is already paying off for me.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#46

Post by Brakenshire » Mon, Dec 19, 2016, 4:32 PM UTC

arcanus wrote: post #15

tjic wrote: post #6

I've met a lot of people who "couldn't" find a job. What they usually mean is "they can't find a job in the area they want, in the industry they want, doing the kind of work they want, at the salary they want, working for someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If / when people loosen one or more of these constraints, they're opportunities open right up. Like everyone, I prefer to get exactly what I w…

> This is a highly overconstrained search Yes and no. It can speak to structural inefficiencies in the economy. For instance, I am a Computational Scientist with a decade of experience in scientific research, publications, etc. It would be a massive waste of my training to be working in an unrelated field, for instance. Underemployment is a very real thing, and it hurts the entire economy. We as a society have a vest…

That is true, but it can also mean that the education system is not teaching to the real economy. There's definitely a significant place for an education which has no reference to the economy, but that is a failure if what you're supposed to be getting is a technical education, or if your aim is to increase productivity. Just because people have spent a lot of time learning something, it doesn't mean that skill or knowledge is actually in demand. Unfortunately there's a class prejudice on technical as opposed to academic education which limits everyone involved. Ideally everyone would study some balance of academic and technical, both before starting their career, and also intermittently throughout their life. For instance, a lot of academics could do with a technical methods-based education on stats, use of IT in particular areas, and so on. And a lot of people who have done academic degrees (whether in sciences of humanities) are a long way from actually being useful in a real job. A lot of people who are in careers which are over-supplied, low-paid, etc, really should be cutting their losses and training for another career. And a lot of people who are employed, even in high positions, have deficient understanding of areas which are necessary to do their job well.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#47

Post by endymi0n » Mon, Dec 19, 2016, 4:33 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #13

tjic wrote: post #6

I've met a lot of people who "couldn't" find a job. What they usually mean is "they can't find a job in the area they want, in the industry they want, doing the kind of work they want, at the salary they want, working for someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If / when people loosen one or more of these constraints, they're opportunities open right up. Like everyone, I prefer to get exactly what I w…

This guy seems to fall into that category: "There have been times where I’ve wondered if I should just get a temporary service or manual labor job...I would be too humiliated... It would be exceptionally difficult to work eight hours a day hoping with all my might that a neighbor or friend wouldn’t swing by to see me working the cash register or pumping gas." This is a definitive example of the prideful worker effect…

That being said, the prideful worker effect is very real though. I remember when my mom told me how her nightshifts in the sausage factory as a student made her more humble - and I thought "what a waste - I'm going to step in high and then get really rich so I don't have to do this!".

Six years and three failed university degrees later, I started in night shifts myself in customer support because I had no other option and some guy from a mailing list had a heart for someone broke and desperate.

Fast forward another seven years and I'm not just CTO of a profitable company, but also pretty thankful of all my experience in customer support, if only for a good chunk of humility. It's really hard to overcome your initial feelings about such a "downgrade" in socioeconomic status for a chance on a new beginning/industry though, don't know if I would have dared that after 40.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#48

Post by mcguire » Mon, Dec 19, 2016, 4:34 PM UTC

flippy2 wrote: post #5

Honestly. If the author can't make it in SV due to having a rough ride they should look outside the area. There are plenty of companies needing IT workers across the USA and moving to one of them sounds like a good way for him to get back on his feet.

In this case, that would require leaving his wife's job, which is currently supporting them.

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#49

Post by Kurtz79 » Mon, Dec 19, 2016, 4:35 PM UTC

vthallam wrote: post #29

cijt wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've met a lot of managers who "couldn't" find anyone to hire. What they usually mean is "they can't find an employee in the location they want, with the credentials they want, with the skills they want, at the salary they want, who's been trained by someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If/when employers loosen one or more of these constraints, candidates show right up. Like everyone, I prefer to g…

This wouldn't work unless the employer we are talking about is a software/tech company where they can hire remote/setup a office with very less money. On the other side, people who work on industries which are located on certain areas has to move there to be placed.

Funny that the software/tech industry is one of the few (to my knowledge) willing to offer "relocation packages".

Re: 9M American men in prime working age can’t find jobs. I’m one of them

#50

Post by client4 » Mon, Dec 19, 2016, 4:36 PM UTC

tjic wrote: post #6

I've met a lot of people who "couldn't" find a job. What they usually mean is "they can't find a job in the area they want, in the industry they want, doing the kind of work they want, at the salary they want, working for someone else." This is a highly overconstrained search. If / when people loosen one or more of these constraints, they're opportunities open right up. Like everyone, I prefer to get exactly what I w…

I came to say exactly this, though the article touched on a thing I've never understood: why is it embarrassing to take a job that pays? If I only had $30 for a week, I'd dig holes for minimum wage 10 hours a day if that's what it took to get out of a bad financial situation.