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How Unix made it to the top

minnie.tuhs.org

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Re: How Unix made it to the top

#101

Post by dispose13432 »

pjmlp wrote: post #50
nine_k wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unix kernel is hugely popular: think of the millions of Android devices. Unix userland, not so much, outside the software engineering community.

Have you ever used the NDK? Android is all about Java and there is only a very thin subset of native APIs that are available, including POSIX ones. https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis.html Starting with Android 7, calling anything outside of that list will terminate the application. Google could replace the kernel for something else, while keeping those NDK APIs and only OEMs writing drivers would no…

>Starting with Android 7, calling anything outside of that list will terminate the application. Google could replace the kernel for something else, while keeping those NDK APIs and only OEMs writing drivers would notice

And they're planning on doing precisely that with Fuchsia

Re: How Unix made it to the top

#102

Post by oliv__ »

idm wrote: post #100

> Just as one hears of cars chosen for their cupholders, so were these users converted to Unix for trivial reasons: line numbers and vanity. This is why Jobs was the visionary. "[L]ine numbers and vanity" are real-world problems with technical solutions. When you bridge technology into the real world, to create solutions in real lives, then you create value. It's painful to consider that something like UNIX could be…

The real world is the ultimate judge. It's not an easy thing to do, but when you fully realize and accept this, you can then learn to harness it and in turn acquire infinite power to change things.

Re: How Unix made it to the top

#103

Post by technofiend »

justanother wrote: post #71
bitwize wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Filesystem level versioning. TRUE async I/O. Reliability for real workloads. Plus a properly configured VMS cluster has never, ever , been hacked.

this means that back in my teenage years I never encountered a properly configured VMS cluster

cough SYSTEST/SYSTEST cough

Re: How Unix made it to the top

#104

Post by atsaloli »

DonaldFisk wrote: post #95
atsaloli wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep! It goes up to 32k by default, but you can limit it: "The /VERSION_LIMIT qualifier for the CREATE/DIRECTORY, SET DIRECTORY, and SET FILE commands lets you control the number of versions of a file. If you exceed the version limit, the system automatically purges the lowest version file in excess of the limit. For example, if the version limit is 5 and you create the sixth version of a file (ACCOUNTS.DAT;6), the sy…

This wasn't unique to VMS. Symbolics Genera had this capability. ITS, VME-B, and I think TOPS-10, also had numbered file versions.

Fair enough. My computing career started in the nineties on VMS at the Help Desk of Brandeis University, my work-study job.

Re: How Unix made it to the top

#105

Post by AsyncAwait »

lisivka wrote: post #98
AsyncAwait wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They may not, but there's so little original UNIX code in *BSD these days that it does not matter, in fact that's one of the main reasons they won the lawsuit in the first place.

I just opened my Red Book and reread «Short history of UNIX». Berkley University bought license for AT&T UNIX[1] in 1977. They started to develop their own software for UNIX and distribute it, so this variant of UNIX is called BSD. Then they decide to remove and rewrite original AT&T code, due to license and associated costs, and released 4.3BSD[2], which then used by BSD flavors. So BSD is UNIX, but it contains no A…

Yes, my point is that since *BSD does not contain the original UNIX code anymore, it is no more UNIX than Linux is, since it was basically rewritten from scratch.

Re: How Unix made it to the top

#106

Post by AsyncAwait »

aap_ wrote: post #84
AsyncAwait wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Linux is perfectly UNIX in terms of userland and 'spirit', if you will. It's not UNIX officially, but that's because nobody bothered to pay for the licensing, since it's not worth it, not because it couldn't get certified as UNIX if somebody wanted to do it - in fact D. Ritchie himself said: "I think the Linux phenomenon is quite delightful, because it draws so strongly on the basis that Unix provided. Linux…

Ken uses OS X.

As per[1], "According to a 2009 interview, Thompson now uses a Linux-based operating system." He probably uses multiple systems, including macOS in some capacity, am sure, but it looks like he uses/used Linux.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Thompson

Re: How Unix made it to the top

#107

Post by aap_ »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #106
aap_ wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ken uses OS X.

As per[1], "According to a 2009 interview, Thompson now uses a Linux-based operating system." He probably uses multiple systems, including macOS in some capacity, am sure, but it looks like he uses/used Linux. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Thompson

I can't find the source right now but Russ Cox posted to some newsgroup or mailing list that most golang developers use OS X these days (rsc, rob and ken for sure).

Re: How Unix made it to the top

#108

Post by JonnieCache »

cperciva wrote: post #28
coldtea wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the meaningful way for UNIX (and Linux) to succeed as a popular product, according to the aspirations of its proponents, was on the desktop. It wasn't just about the server side back then (late 90s, early 00s) it was all about taking over Windows. If somebody uses some hardware product (e.g. set top box) and doesn't know its Linux, then it's no big win for the Linux community. And it's not just necessarily that…

If somebody uses some hardware product (e.g. set top box) and doesn't know its Linux, then it's no big win for the Linux community. I have to disagree there. It may not be a marketing win, but that doesn't mean that there are no other benefits. The fact that the PlayStation 4 runs FreeBSD has resulted in a large number of improvements becoming available to us; whether Johnny knows that his games are running on a daem…

>The fact that the PlayStation 4 runs FreeBSD has resulted in a large number of improvements becoming available to us

Is there a writeup of this anywhere? If stuff has been backported/upstreamed/whatever from the PS4 to the freeBSD kernel that would truly be living the dream!

Re: How Unix made it to the top

#109

Post by squarefoot »

lisivka wrote: post #16
milankragujevic wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like this argument, because Android is not developed openly and the kernel itself is a fork which lags behind the mainstream Linux development until Google implements the changes, which users see when they throw away their phone because Samsung/HTC/Xiaomi/Ulefone/Whatever doesn't want to update the phone or Verizon/ATT/Telenor/T-Mobile, etc., doesn't want to push the update because they branded the phone so t…

Android can be run on vanilla kernel with few patches: http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-7-2013/general/android... . Android apps can be run on GNU/Linux without emulation when required libraries and daemons are available (on compatible architecture, of course).

True, but how many devices will allow you to install and use that system without being forced to add blobs?

Re: How Unix made it to the top

#110

Post by enriquto »

flomo wrote: post #29

Wow. I have to say that it is funny how you hear the legendary tales of computing history over and over again and then some little crucial minor details like "we sold the CEO's office on it" eventually slip out. Ok, that was important at AT&T, but not really why Unix currently rules the universe. Due to anti-trust settlements and cheap licensing, and copyright foibles, Unix was the cheap midrange choice for students…

Legendary indeed ! I assume the author of this message is not using a pseudonym ?
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