Well, from my experience in France, most of them will stay jobless.
Finland will hand out cash to 2000 jobless people to test universal basic income
321–330 of 413 posts
Re: Finland will hand out cash to 2000 jobless people to test universal basic income
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
how pissed would everyone be if one of these people became a millionaire through working on some business while using Finland's cash handout to finance it. even though the taxes from that is exactly what would make the whole program absolutely free - and is the basic point behind a UBI. It really is "free" for the country. A proper test of UBI has to make it available to everyone.
Why would anyone be pissed? If someone else does well how does that hurt you?
Well, there is limited amount of resources. So when someone buys a big house, someone else must have a smaller house.
Re: Finland will hand out cash to 2000 jobless people to test universal basic income
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
Negative income tax would be a blatant subsidisation of labour, which has it's own issues. In another sense, it's just welfare, but a highly regressive one. More income would go to those who are poor but in work, and less to those for what ever reason (like disability) unable to work. If you were to further lower the costs of labour, you risk stymieing actual economic growth which comes from improvements in efficienc…
How is subsidization of labor worse than subsidization of non-labor?
Because people who work have money already, people who can't work don't.
Re: Finland will hand out cash to 2000 jobless people to test universal basic income
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
Negative income tax would be a blatant subsidisation of labour, which has it's own issues. In another sense, it's just welfare, but a highly regressive one. More income would go to those who are poor but in work, and less to those for what ever reason (like disability) unable to work. If you were to further lower the costs of labour, you risk stymieing actual economic growth which comes from improvements in efficienc…
> More income would go to those who are poor but in work, and less to those for what ever reason (like disability) unable to work. Isn't that a desirable outcome ? Shouldn't the able bodied person who is working obviously earn more ? Giving people incentive to work not only helps them rise up but also prevents their exploitation in case they try going to underground economy. > For instance, why use a machine when you…
> Isn't that a desirable outcome ? Shouldn't the able bodied person who is working obviously earn more ? Giving people incentive to work not only helps them rise up but also prevents their exploitation in case they try going to underground economy.
This happens anyway in our current system. Someone who's disabled and unable to work already earns less than someone who's working 50 hours a week in a minimum wage job. Negative income exacerbates that.
Re: Finland will hand out cash to 2000 jobless people to test universal basic income
#325Earlier quoted context omitted.
What would be an acceptable limit ? 10 years ? in that span you're free to plan long project, even raise children in the same place long enough they can develop habits, friends, without too much stress.
There is no acceptable limit. It should be for life, or longer.
Remember that no rule nor policy is for ever; you always have politics. The new party in power might change everything, always.
Re: Finland will hand out cash to 2000 jobless people to test universal basic income
#326If its only going to jobless people, not UBI. This is not a meaningless distinction -- one of the features of UBI is that it is universal . If this just goes to unemployed people we cannot see the change in behavior with people who are earning close to their reservation wage. Do they stop working? This is streamlined rebranded welfare. Not a paradigm shift.
I'm from Poland, where recently the government introduced a "500+" program, which means that every family in the country receives 500PLN per month, per child, from the day they are born to the time when they are 18 year old. Now, my parents run a company which mostly has physical workers - and for a physical worker, in the "poorer" part of the country, 1500PLN/per month(after taxes) is an ok salary. The day the 500+…
The interesting question is how did your parents' company react to this: Increasing automation? Increasing productivity amongst existing workers? Increasing salaries to attract people? Employing childless people? [in the UBI case that would be analogous to employing non-citizens or illegal workers] Producing less output? Something else?
Re: Finland will hand out cash to 2000 jobless people to test universal basic income
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would anyone be pissed? If someone else does well how does that hurt you?
Well, there is limited amount of resources. So when someone buys a big house, someone else must have a smaller house.
That's only true if your country is completely covered in houses up to the maximum possible height of buildings. I'm not aware of any such country (or even city or town -- possibly Singapore or Hong Kong come close).
Re: Finland will hand out cash to 2000 jobless people to test universal basic income
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
Money is not being created from thin air so why would you think there was inflation?
Actually, it is. States/Central Banks can print money as they wish. Go be more exact: printing isn't even necessary, money nowadays is barely more than a replicated database entry.
But that has nothing to do with UBI. All the UBI schemes proposed get the money through general taxation of some kind.
Re: Finland will hand out cash to 2000 jobless people to test universal basic income
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm from Poland, where recently the government introduced a "500+" program, which means that every family in the country receives 500PLN per month, per child, from the day they are born to the time when they are 18 year old. Now, my parents run a company which mostly has physical workers - and for a physical worker, in the "poorer" part of the country, 1500PLN/per month(after taxes) is an ok salary. The day the 500+…
They now have free time to pursue another career, further their own education, or put more time and energy into the next generation. The interesting question is what would happen if it was for everyone and not just those with children. Do you think this would be a bad thing?
My guess is that many of them will use their free time to make another couple of kids and raise their income with another 1000.
Re: Finland will hand out cash to 2000 jobless people to test universal basic income
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, there is limited amount of resources. So when someone buys a big house, someone else must have a smaller house.
That's only true if your country is completely covered in houses up to the maximum possible height of buildings. I'm not aware of any such country (or even city or town -- possibly Singapore or Hong Kong come close).
You assume that limiting factor for houses is land, but in real world it's infrastructure, especially transportation.