What Hardware startups can learn from Pebble • Hacker News Board

Re: What Hardware startups can learn from Pebble

#11

Post by kalleboo » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 10:32 AM UTC

gcatalfamo wrote: post #5

kalleboo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you're not the only one, it might not be a big enough market to get the economies of scale required to turn a startup into a mass-market business

Absolutely true. But it might also be evidence of how early adopters were forgotten in the attempt to appeal to a greater number of users. I would also add that, imho, the biggest smartwatches problem is that a watch is still a style choice over a fitness utility tool. I'd rather wear my colourful and inexpensive "Swatch" watches or my grandfathers Rolex over my moto 360

It's probably just too expensive to sustain a hardware startup aiming at a niche in the west these days. Our hope is probably in China.

Re: What Hardware startups can learn from Pebble

#12

Post by rhaps0dy » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 10:46 AM UTC

stevewillows wrote: post #10

rhaps0dy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What productivity thing would you use a smartwatch for? I got a Pebble as a hackathon prize and tried to use it for a while, but I wasn't able to find a use for it that I didn't already do with my smartphone, which you must take with you anyways if you have a Pebble. So I'm really curious.

The benefit of the Pebble was that you could get basic information (notifications, notes, time, alarms, etc) without having to reach for your phone. I found it perfect for meetings where I didn't want the client to feel like I was tight on time or rushing things, even if I had to. It seems silly, but the multiple timers were especially useful for cooking large dinners. Overall, the Pebble was great because it had fan…

>I found it perfect for meetings where I didn't want the client to feel like I was tight on time or rushing things, even if I had to.

Ah, this seems good. Socially acceptable information-checking. I'll keep this in mind as a use for smartwatches, even though I don't need it (yet?).

>It seems silly, but the multiple timers were especially useful for cooking large dinners.

You could also set the phone on a surface somewhere and have multiple timers on it, but I see how carrying them on your wrist makes them more convenient.

Thanks for writing this :)

Re: What Hardware startups can learn from Pebble

#13

Post by stevewillows » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 10:58 AM UTC

rhaps0dy wrote: post #12

stevewillows wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benefit of the Pebble was that you could get basic information (notifications, notes, time, alarms, etc) without having to reach for your phone. I found it perfect for meetings where I didn't want the client to feel like I was tight on time or rushing things, even if I had to. It seems silly, but the multiple timers were especially useful for cooking large dinners. Overall, the Pebble was great because it had fan…

>I found it perfect for meetings where I didn't want the client to feel like I was tight on time or rushing things, even if I had to. Ah, this seems good. Socially acceptable information-checking. I'll keep this in mind as a use for smartwatches, even though I don't need it (yet?). >It seems silly, but the multiple timers were especially useful for cooking large dinners. You could also set the phone on a surface some…

The vibration is the key for me.

I first got the Pebble because I wanted to know who was calling or texting me while I was on my bike around town. Over the next few years the other features became part of my daily habits. Simple things like responding to texts with canned messages (e.g. 'Ten minutes away' or 'I'll call you in five') allowed me to take a relaxing ride without stressing about missing an important call or message.

My experience is similar to the days before I got a smartphone -- that 'pfft... I don't need that. I can do that when I get back to my desk.'

Re: What Hardware startups can learn from Pebble

#14

Post by krzrak » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 11:31 AM UTC

stevewillows wrote: post #10

rhaps0dy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What productivity thing would you use a smartwatch for? I got a Pebble as a hackathon prize and tried to use it for a while, but I wasn't able to find a use for it that I didn't already do with my smartphone, which you must take with you anyways if you have a Pebble. So I'm really curious.

The benefit of the Pebble was that you could get basic information (notifications, notes, time, alarms, etc) without having to reach for your phone. I found it perfect for meetings where I didn't want the client to feel like I was tight on time or rushing things, even if I had to. It seems silly, but the multiple timers were especially useful for cooking large dinners. Overall, the Pebble was great because it had fan…

> I found it perfect for meetings where I didn't want the client to feel like I was tight on time or rushing things, even if I had to.

It's funny to read that, because in my culture looking at your watch is a sign of "let's finish" or "I'm in a hurry", while briefly looking at the phone is perfectly acceptable.

But I admit, that people with smartwatches confuse me from time to time, when they look at their watch frequently and are not in a hurry :)

Re: What Hardware startups can learn from Pebble

#15

Post by ryanSrich » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 11:42 AM UTC

gcatalfamo wrote: post #2

Everybody is claiming that the focus on fitness is what drives smartwatches purchases, and pebble was just too late to it. Is it just me that stopped looking into smartwatches because they became too fitness oriented? I loved the focus on productivity and having a watch becoming slower because it had to track an increasing number of health metrics I couldn't care less of actually killed it for me.

Whatever the job is the majority of consumers hire a smartwatch to do is what companies should focus on. Turns out most are interested in hiring a smartwatch to do fitness jobs.

Re: What Hardware startups can learn from Pebble

#16

Post by tdkl » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 11:47 AM UTC

gcatalfamo wrote: post #2

Everybody is claiming that the focus on fitness is what drives smartwatches purchases, and pebble was just too late to it. Is it just me that stopped looking into smartwatches because they became too fitness oriented? I loved the focus on productivity and having a watch becoming slower because it had to track an increasing number of health metrics I couldn't care less of actually killed it for me.

Based on the market, it's just you and couple others, yes.

Re: What Hardware startups can learn from Pebble

#17

Post by edblarney » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 12:01 PM UTC

I fear that the repercussions will be that 'hardware' means longer and more costlier life-cycles, and that the path to 'high flying' is just quicker/easier in software, and that it will make it more difficult to raise money for these kinds of things.

Re: What Hardware startups can learn from Pebble

#18

Post by nostrademons » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 12:08 PM UTC

gcatalfamo wrote: post #2

Everybody is claiming that the focus on fitness is what drives smartwatches purchases, and pebble was just too late to it. Is it just me that stopped looking into smartwatches because they became too fitness oriented? I loved the focus on productivity and having a watch becoming slower because it had to track an increasing number of health metrics I couldn't care less of actually killed it for me.

Fitness is an early-adopter market too. It's worked better because fitness nuts are incredibly passionate early adopters - build something that appeals to them and you get rapid uptake. But they're still quite limited in number, and that's eventually going to prove problematic for hardware startups that target them, at least if they're funded and burn cash as if they're a mainstream product. We saw Go-Pro hit the wall in mid-2015; Fitbit is next.

I own both an Apple Watch and a Moto 360, and I was really hoping to see the smartwatch market take off - enough that I wasted a year or so on app development for it. IMHO, the problem is that the "whole product" isn't there yet. I think the killer apps for smartwatches will actually be in logistics: replace managers & foremen with software, which interfaces with the line workers via smartwatch. The beauty of a smartwatch in this situation is that you can be doing other stuff with your hands, which you can't do with a phone. Imagine, for example, a retail store with no employees, where you walk in and your watch guides you to the items of interest, displays prices as you try out items, and then lets you check-out by tapping your wristwatch and having it instantly charge your credit card. Or a restaurant where the waiters know instantly when a table is waiting, and never mess up an order.

But that isn't a smartwatch app, that's a complete value chain, and building out the customer relationships and back-end software is non-trivial, probably the majority of the work. Nobody's done it yet, and probably nobody's going to do it until you get a critical mass of customers with smartwatches, so there's a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem.

Re: What Hardware startups can learn from Pebble

#19

Post by stevewillows » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 12:18 PM UTC

krzrak wrote: post #14

stevewillows wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benefit of the Pebble was that you could get basic information (notifications, notes, time, alarms, etc) without having to reach for your phone. I found it perfect for meetings where I didn't want the client to feel like I was tight on time or rushing things, even if I had to. It seems silly, but the multiple timers were especially useful for cooking large dinners. Overall, the Pebble was great because it had fan…

> I found it perfect for meetings where I didn't want the client to feel like I was tight on time or rushing things, even if I had to. It's funny to read that, because in my culture looking at your watch is a sign of "let's finish" or "I'm in a hurry", while briefly looking at the phone is perfectly acceptable. But I admit, that people with smartwatches confuse me from time to time, when they look at their watch freq…

that's the beauty of the vibration. You don't need to look at your watch to get a fifteen minute warning (or whatever you've set it to). The buzz is silent to others, but enough that you'll recognize it.

Re: What Hardware startups can learn from Pebble

#20

Post by Fnoord » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 12:34 PM UTC

stevewillows wrote: post #9

gcatalfamo wrote: post #2

Everybody is claiming that the focus on fitness is what drives smartwatches purchases, and pebble was just too late to it. Is it just me that stopped looking into smartwatches because they became too fitness oriented? I loved the focus on productivity and having a watch becoming slower because it had to track an increasing number of health metrics I couldn't care less of actually killed it for me.

I'm in the same boat as you. I love my Pebbles, but the lack of good basic apps was always a struggle. I use PowerNoter to pull to do lists from Evernote, which is fine -- but not always reliable. It's a shame to see them go. Everyone I know with Pebbles love them, but they tend to be more technical users who wouldn't get stressed over a few bugs. All I really want from a smart watch are: - notifications (of my choos…

The Pebble Classic v1 did not ship with a lot of functionality for notifications, music and alarm (I remember needing Music Boss for a while), but later on I got all three working (it was permission related). The notifications can be customised. Firmware also did extend such features at the price of less uptime (mine went from 7 to about 3 days).

The lack of a to-do app is a huge one for me. Why? Because the use case of using a smartwatch with a grocery store list is huge for me. I'd use it twice a week, at the very least. Replacing the screen on my phone sets me back 85 EUR. A Pebble cost me ~115 EUR (including duties & S&H). And with all the kids and perky people in the grocery store the question isn't if my phone is gonna drop, its when. It is just so unfortunate that Google Keep doesn't have a public API. There also isn't an abstraction layer for to-do lists (I, for one, am not going to pay for a subscription app like Evernote with a cloud based in US). Preferably I'd self host, and gladly pay a one time fee for such an app.

> Everyone I know with Pebbles love them, but they tend to be more technical users who wouldn't get stressed over a few bugs.

Yeah, that and lack of apps/features perhaps makes the device just not user friendly enough. You can't sell that if you focus on productivity, but you can mask it if you're going for fitness.