Show HN: Hire an Oldster

> I can't imagine what the difference between 50 and 25 will be.

I think the problem we run into is that neither can most people.

> If you're hiring 40-60 year olds you cannot simply hire a 25 year old and get an "acceptable tradeoff of competency" unless you didn't need anything close to that competency in the first place.

And, again, the issue is that most people honestly believe that they don't need the extra competency.

I work in a relatively enlightened group. People treat me with considerable respect and I feel that they value my experience (I'm knocking up against 50 years old). Even still, if I say, "You know what, I've tried that before a few times and it never seems to work out" nobody will accept it as an answer :-). These young guys all want/need to make their own mistakes.

Sometimes I've even run into situations where people are doing considerable damage to their careers by making bad choices. Explaining the situation often makes them very, very unhappy. You end up feeling like the dad on a team of teenagers where everyone deep down loves and respects you, but day to day hates your guts :-).

Since the field is growing so fast, we have this influx of young talent. They just can't see beyond where they will be in 5 years. Just the other day I saw an ad on Youtube for some programmer mill -- "I took a 10 month course and now I'm living my dream," kind of BS. Everybody wants to think that they are doing an awesome job and we have pushed back the bar for awesome a fairly long way. There's an expectation that you can do a boot camp, work for a year or two and then it's easy street from there.

The reality, of course, is that 30 years on I'm still reading and hacking and struggling and experimenting and learning -- and I've been doing it for 30 years. I look in awe at some people in the industry and wonder if I will be able to gain that kind of competency before I retire.

I think if I could sum up the advantage of being more experienced it would be to watch the classic movie, "The Seven Samurai", note who survives to the end, think about why they survive and remark on what they plan to do next.

The saying has nothing to do with changing jobs or skills.

It means the person isn't learning from their mistakes and is still making the same types of errors a first year programmer/engineer/nurse makes.

True, but I never undervalue the conversations that happen in the pub after work. (NDAs after all don't apply if people hold a pint or so it seems.) There just is no need to hang around for long nor do it every night. But it is beneficial to show your face occasionally.

I got 2 small kids that I try to get home to at a decent hour most of the week, but I also try to go for a quick pint with my team once or twice a week (depends on the team..) I got it down to a fine art of fitting in just one maybe two pints then run to catch my train so that I am only home 30m-1hr later than normal. Also being in London with several pubs across the road and a train station 10 minutes walk away helps.

The other bit about unwilling to do 60 hour gauntlet now as a 40 year old compared to me at 25 is bollox though. I didn't do it then and I don't do it now.

If you're 50 (edit: and have 20+ years of experience) and interviewing for low level tech jobs, I have to think you just haven't given a fuck for the last 10-20 years of your career. Like why aren't you either

1. Retired

2. A principal dev

3. Managing

4. Doing your own thing

5. Raising kids

If you say "I just like to code," fuck off. I'm growing a business, not "Just coding."

If you say "I have super powers," I say you're probably delusional. I'll get someone who has 15 years' experience who isn't delusional.

If you're still writing ifttt code at 50, yeah, I can find someone with literally 15 year's experience to do the same thing who is more than qualified for the job, but who won't either die or fail to grow with the role. I'm sorry if that's a shitty thing to say, but let's embrace reality.

If I can't find anyone else, I'll take a chance on you, but I want to hire people who will grow with the role, not people biding their time doing service-level code work.

If you think that's cruel, try getting a job in law.

Edit: p.s. If you're 50 and just starting out in programming, none of this applies. I'm interested. It's not age that concerns me, it's failure to grow.

Even at 25 I wasn't interested in the new tech. Uh oh. Oh well. Anybody up for some hacking around with bits?