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Real geeks die early

norbu09.org

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Re: Real geeks die early

#11

Post by eru »

param wrote: post #7
potatolicious wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Second step: stop referring to people as "which". "which" is for things, "who" is for people. Replying to param, but don't want to spam another comment: > "b) understand the criticality of the deadlines," Why is the deadline critical? For whom? What is the programmer's stake in this deadline, and do your people feel like they have been treated fairly? To answer the first part, ask yourself seriously: what happens if…

sorry - English is not my first language. (Not fixing the comment to keep yours relevant) I think my question is being taken the wrong way. Let me try asking again: I have work X to get done. I have a team member who I would like to work on this. I ask them to estimate the work, validate the estimates and then track against the same. In the weekly status calls, if they are behind schedule, can not give a justifiable…

Your questions look pretty valid to me. It's a shame that the language barrier leads to down-mods. Especially, considering that you are making the effort and speaking their language in the first place.

(English isn't my first language either.)

Re: Real geeks die early

#12

Post by param »

dkarl wrote: post #10
param wrote: post #2

I am making a transition from being a developer to a manager these days. I consider myself a passionate developer, and hence I never thought twice about spending time beyond 9-5 and getting a job done (as it made me happy). Now that I am a manager, I am working with multiple resources, some of which like to work for work's sake, some are good resources that will only work 9-5, and some losers that won't get a good jo…

a) Nobody can be "given" the chance to estimate accurately. Either you already know the code and know exactly what you're going to do, or you're just guessing, hoping that the task will prove similar to something you've done in the past. b) People are used to being lied to about criticality, and "understanding" the criticality of deadlines is usually code for working extra hard to compensate for planning mistakes, un…

Agreed. You may want to see another comment I've made where I would be ok if they can explain the delay with a valid reason for it - personal reasons/infrastructure issues/unexpected complexity.

The basic point you are making is that if there are unplanned/under-planned developments, we need to account for them in a way that's humane, rather than forcing the developer to hold on to an arbitrarily identified date. I am all for it, but in my case, I am not getting any good reason for the delay, just a note that things are delayed.

Re: Real geeks die early

#13

Post by mvp »

param wrote: post #6
seiji wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am working with multiple resources, First step: stop calling people "resources"

heh, sure. I see how my comment is coming off as bitchy and is being downmodded. However, I am genuinely curious. There are people in my team that are currently just working 9-5. There is one guy who is working nights and weekends because he likes it, and then there is one guy that's working (productivity wise) 25-30 hrs a week while missing internal milestones. Its frustrating to be in my place, because I feel sad f…

It is impossible to estimate accurately. I read somewhere which seem quite valid - "if we can't predict how much time was spent developing something even when we have the finished product at hand, what chance have we got of estimating something that is still up in the air".

About managing people, the best you can do in your situation if you really care is to inspire those you think are not performing as well as they could. Explain how working passionately will ultimately benefit them. Of course, treat them as human beings first and not as resources.

Re: Real geeks die early

#14

Post by smokinn »

param wrote: post #6
seiji wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am working with multiple resources, First step: stop calling people "resources"

heh, sure. I see how my comment is coming off as bitchy and is being downmodded. However, I am genuinely curious. There are people in my team that are currently just working 9-5. There is one guy who is working nights and weekends because he likes it, and then there is one guy that's working (productivity wise) 25-30 hrs a week while missing internal milestones. Its frustrating to be in my place, because I feel sad f…

You confront him.

It may make you uncomfortable but it needs to be done. You need to be up front with him and say that lately his performance has been unacceptable and that he needs to correct the situation.

Being honest about it will often fix the problem.

From your vocabulary and planned milestones and weekly status meetings I'm assuming you work for a large company. If he continues under-performing without valid reasons you start the process your company has for getting him fired. You call him in to your office to issue a formal warning with a copy given to HR and explain to him that he's on the path to getting fired if he still doesn't correct the situation. Depending on your company policy you can usually fire after 2 or 3 documented warnings. After the warning, if he still doesn't do anything about it you start putting out job offers for his position.

It's the only way his performance won't sap the energy of the entire team.

Re: Real geeks die early

#15

Post by param »

potatolicious wrote: post #9
param wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

heh, sure. I see how my comment is coming off as bitchy and is being downmodded. However, I am genuinely curious. There are people in my team that are currently just working 9-5. There is one guy who is working nights and weekends because he likes it, and then there is one guy that's working (productivity wise) 25-30 hrs a week while missing internal milestones. Its frustrating to be in my place, because I feel sad f…

> "because I feel sad for the nightouter when he picks up for the third guy" Why not talk to the night-coder? The best bosses I have ever had were the ones who actively told me to work less . It's so rare to hear that in our industry that you may just earn yourself some real loyalty. [edit] To clarify: the guy not pulling his weight is IMHO a separate issue from the guy who works at night. If the guy not pulling his…

Ah, thank you. Now I feel we are on the same page. The nightcoder- talking to him is something I was not considering so far, but now am.

Could we also talk a bit more about the problem I was trying to get around to - how do you solve the second problem? How do I 'by all means don't let that happen'?

Re: Real geeks die early

#16

Post by rbanffy »

seiji wrote: post #3
param wrote: post #2

I am making a transition from being a developer to a manager these days. I consider myself a passionate developer, and hence I never thought twice about spending time beyond 9-5 and getting a job done (as it made me happy). Now that I am a manager, I am working with multiple resources, some of which like to work for work's sake, some are good resources that will only work 9-5, and some losers that won't get a good jo…

> I am working with multiple resources, First step: stop calling people "resources"

The company I work for had a strong bias towards PMI-ish project management. Once I was discussing some allocation issues and the project manager said we should allocate more "Java resources" (despite the fact the product in question did not use any Java code).

I fired back with a recapitulation of all the "resources" allocated to the project, the "PHP resources", the "design resources", the "testing resources" and, when it came to count him, I mentioned one "powerpoint resource".

It took him about 5 seconds to get the joke.

Re: Real geeks die early

#17

Post by norbu09 »

param wrote: post #2

I am making a transition from being a developer to a manager these days. I consider myself a passionate developer, and hence I never thought twice about spending time beyond 9-5 and getting a job done (as it made me happy). Now that I am a manager, I am working with multiple resources, some of which like to work for work's sake, some are good resources that will only work 9-5, and some losers that won't get a good jo…

your number one task as a manager is to find suitable sub tasks a developer can estimate on. this implies that you actually know your developers and their skills and give them only the amount of work to judge on they are comfortable with. i can judge on a project that is worth some months of work easily, a junior developer probably only looks about 2-3 days ahead.

Re: Real geeks die early

#18

Post by edw519 »

param wrote: post #2

I am making a transition from being a developer to a manager these days. I consider myself a passionate developer, and hence I never thought twice about spending time beyond 9-5 and getting a job done (as it made me happy). Now that I am a manager, I am working with multiple resources, some of which like to work for work's sake, some are good resources that will only work 9-5, and some losers that won't get a good jo…

As a former developer turned manager turned developer again, a few suggestions:

1. Never lose your developer mindset. Personally, I have great difficulty respecting a non-technical manager of technicians. I bet I'm not the only one.

2. Manage things. Get good at project management. Very good. A good plan, agreed upon, well built and administered, will always be your friend. Something for everyone to fall back on when things get hairy.

3. Don't "manage" people, lead them. Preferably by example.

4. Everyone has problems. Now that you understand that, don't let people's problems interfere with their work or nothing will ever get done.

5. Learn the difference between issues and details. Focus on the issues. Don't waste too much time on the details. And get your team to do the same.

6. When all else fails, communicate. When all else goes well, still communicate. Never underestimate the power of communication. You'd be surprised how much slack others will cut you if you're simply open and honest with them.

7. Treat everyone else the way you'd like to be treated. (This goes for everyone, not just managers.)

8. Listen at least as much as you talk. (This also goes for everyone, not just managers.)

9. Get stuff done. And have fun doing it.

10. Lighten up. You'll be fine.

Re: Real geeks die early

#19

Post by rimantas »

param wrote: post #2

I am making a transition from being a developer to a manager these days. I consider myself a passionate developer, and hence I never thought twice about spending time beyond 9-5 and getting a job done (as it made me happy). Now that I am a manager, I am working with multiple resources, some of which like to work for work's sake, some are good resources that will only work 9-5, and some losers that won't get a good jo…

More than once I had a wish managers would have read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Peopleware-Productive-Projects-Teams-S...

Re: Real geeks die early

#20

Post by jmtame »

dca wrote: post #4

Apparently so do their shift keys.

does it bother you that people don't capitalize properly in their personal blogs? i never understood that. i read through it just fine.

i know it's proper, but i guess i'm kind of lazy in that way. in the words of christopher walken: "i never liked capitalization. it felt like more of an imposition."

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