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Why I Studied Full-Time for 8 Months for a Google Interview

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Re: Why I Studied Full-Time for 8 Months for a Google Interview

#61

> Wherever I end up, I’m going in as an entry-level software engineer. I’m not going in with 15 years of software engineering experience because I simply don’t have it. When it comes to this stuff, I’m the equivalent of a fresh CS grad. Talk about selling yourself short. You've been a web developer for 15 years. I would think you've progressed a little further than entry-level.

You'd be surprised! I've interviewed many "veterans" (and worked with a few!) who just don't have the chops. In the world of web development, the developer who knows just enough to skate by without a proper understanding of algorithms and design patterns seems to be the rule rather than the exception. Kudos to him for acknowledging it and trying to do something about it.

The corollary to that is that many companies which insist that they need a 10x PhD with 15 years experience really just need a solid developer who can consistently ship clean, maintainable code.

Re: Why I Studied Full-Time for 8 Months for a Google Interview

#62
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart's_law

I'm sure he has learned a lot, but when you study with an interview in mind, you're not necessarily studying to be a good developer; you're studying to look like one. There's some correlation, but it's not the same thing.

Re: Why I Studied Full-Time for 8 Months for a Google Interview

#63
post #13

This guy is sad. All those people on Quora who ask unending questions about Google are sad. They're suckers. They've eaten up Google's marketing. You want to know the reality? Whatever's special about Google is long gone. Management let the smoke out a long time ago. Nowadays, Google is just another big software company, with all the opaque politics, purposelessness, and random nonsense that comes with being a big co…

(Disclaimer: not a Googler)

Like it or not, Google is consistently ranked near the top or #1 on all of those "Best places to work" lists that get published from time to time. Everyone I know who has managed to get hired there sings its praises, and none of them have left (yet). I think it's unlikely that each one of their opinions is fueled by Kool-aid. There's something to it.

I don't think this guy is sad at all. I really admire what he did. It's pretty inspiring/motivating actually.

Re: Why I Studied Full-Time for 8 Months for a Google Interview

#64
post #6

I feel like this is some sort of promotional piece, but I can't quite get the angle - is he a fictitious individual made up by Google? Is this an attempt by Apple to make Google employees look weird? Is he a real person who's looking to publish a book? Perhaps it's entirely legit, but it just seems so, so strange to me.

> I can't quite get the angle

He hopes it'll help him land that job at google?

Re: Why I Studied Full-Time for 8 Months for a Google Interview

#65
Hmmm... I can't quite fault the guy if that's what he really wants in life - I put about 3 months (an entire summer) into unpaid studying for grad school prelims (i.e. I didn't request a teaching assignment for the summer) and ended up being the only person to pass all three exams at once that fall (Note: I think there were a couple people that passed the exams by spreading them out over the space of a year or two).

On the other hand, this seems like something you can only easily do if you are young / no kids / or have tons of savings (rich)... (I strongly doubt my wife would put up with me doing this now) so hopefully for the crop of people that want to work there it is not the norm / maybe their age diversity would benefit from making applicants work record count for a bit more or something, idk.

Re: Why I Studied Full-Time for 8 Months for a Google Interview

#66
post #52
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's fair to say people are "falling for it." Their motivations may just differ from yours. For example, say you're interested in earning a lot of money as a software developer - where else are you going to work that's clearly better?

Finance.

That's true if the goal is purely money. I think, though, that if you're just looking to make six figures and don't quite care if it's 150k or 500k then working at a Google or Facebook will be the far better alternative as the workplace culture is better and the hours are likely to be better. For a lot of (most?) engineers, there's not enough money in the world to offset the difference in utility from working at a finance company instead of a development/research company. It's your life after all, and you spend a sizeble chunk of every day at work either way.

Re: Why I Studied Full-Time for 8 Months for a Google Interview

#67
Great write-up, thank you to the OP for putting this on the web! I have a few thoughts on it.

First, I'm not all that surprised someone would study for 8 months for an interview at Google. I interviewed there (no hire) and gave myself 3 weeks. It wasn't close to enough time, and I've taken a lot of formal math and basic CS plus data structures. Just too rusty, especially at a whiteboard. I could easily have spent 3 months.

Various people here have cautioned against working at Google, and I know people who worked at Google (as SSE's) who cautioned me about it when they heard I was interviewing. No, not in a "run away" sense, more of a "don't get too starry eyed here, it's not that great" sense. But salary-wise, a SSE role at Google would have paid a hell of a lot more than I make right now. I'm just saying, I can see why people put in the time. And plenty of people do love it there.

My advice to people who have more of the fundamentals is to get a copy of "Cracking the Coding Interview" and just making damn sure you can do the hard problems in 45 minutes at a whiteboard. Memorizing won't help you, you need to understand what you're doing on a deep enough level that you can solve similar problems you haven't seen before.

I also recommend knowing basic data structures like the back of your hand. Really, you can't be trying to remember how to program a queue or stack, or traverse a tree, not if you need to use these concepts to solve a more complicated problem in 45 minutes at a whiteboard [1].

Now, on to the other side here...

I love a few things about software. I love it that an econ major who self studies intensely can get "high level" jobs. I love it that no cartel controls entrance, and can force everyone to do a 3 year grad degree with tuitions at 50K+ a year. I love it that really smart people can move at a faster pace because they learn quickly.

However, I don't love it that corporations are essentially our gatekeepers. The "google interview" shouldn't e called an interview, it should be called the "google exam". Calling it an interview creates an ambiguity that confuses people outside our industry. I know people who work in other fields, and while knowledge is probed during interviews, what they go through is vastly different from what we go through in software. My "interview" at Google was a series of whiteboard exams.

Here's what I don't like about this - someone like the OP here studies, intensely, and takes his exams. Suppose he didn't get the job. Well, how did he do? If you take the actuarial exams, or the nursing boards, or the bar, you get a sense of how you did. There is more transparency around the test. There has to be.

As far as I know (based on what I've read about this interview process at Google from people who know, including the author of Cracking the Coding Interview), my name, along with very formal numerical scores, along with photos of the whiteboard after each interview/exam, are in a database at Google. However (yes, for legal reasons), I am not allowed to know more that the vaguest details about this.

A formal exam, in almost every field, has a published study path. It is graded in a way that is audited to ensure fairness and consistency. It must not be capricious. A student has an opportunity, often, to try again. Your hard study, should you pass, leads to a lasting credential respected by industry.

We get none of this in software. I honestly do believe that the tech exam is a big part of why a lot of people quit software development or never enter it in the first place - this in a field where CEOs regularly lobby congress and the president to lament a shortage of tech talent.

We do need to fix the technical interview. I think the first step is to realize that it is a formal exam, and that as such, it needs to come with the usual benefits and considerations afforded to people who take formal professional exams in other fields.

Re: Why I Studied Full-Time for 8 Months for a Google Interview

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like preparing for an iBanking or Management Consulting interview: undergrads and bschool students alike will spend months preparing for those. And it's "worth it", if they really have what you're after. For banking and consulting, analyst training is truly great. The signaling after those few years when you're a bright kid who studied history in undergrad, is pretty good too. And with Google, you can't deny…

it wasn't so long ago that nobody did this for tech, because we had a self-selecting industry that paid smart people very well, and those banker and consultant kids looked to us with a certain level of envy because we could naturally, seemingly effortlessly (not really), do what they studied years and years to do, which is make over 100 grand in your early 20's without really trying. those days are almost over. the b…

> it wasn't so long ago that nobody did this for tech

Well, competition for jobs (especially the top ones) has never been so fierce. I remember my first job out of undergrad was programming for a (then) pretty well known hardware company. I cracked open a book on "how to write device drivers" the day before my interview and breezed through the interview and got the job. This would literally never happen today. Interviews (even at no-name "dog" companies) are so much tougher these days and there is so much competition that there is no longer room for mistakes.

These top employers are seen as kingmakers for engineers' careers. It's totally believable that one would spend months (or even years) preparing for a single company's interview.

Re: Why I Studied Full-Time for 8 Months for a Google Interview

#69
post #56
post #36

How are these people that study for what ever company so certain they'll even get an interview? I'm still waiting for Google to acknowledge my application from last year lol.

he has a referral, it's said on the post.

And now he has the post, so even Google can google the magnitude of his devotion to them.

Re: Why I Studied Full-Time for 8 Months for a Google Interview

#70
post #13

This guy is sad. All those people on Quora who ask unending questions about Google are sad. They're suckers. They've eaten up Google's marketing. You want to know the reality? Whatever's special about Google is long gone. Management let the smoke out a long time ago. Nowadays, Google is just another big software company, with all the opaque politics, purposelessness, and random nonsense that comes with being a big co…

(Disclaimer: not a Googler) Like it or not, Google is consistently ranked near the top or #1 on all of those "Best places to work" lists that get published from time to time. Everyone I know who has managed to get hired there sings its praises, and none of them have left (yet). I think it's unlikely that each one of their opinions is fueled by Kool-aid. There's something to it. I don't think this guy is sad at all. I…

The median employee tenure at Google is only 1.1 years, so clearly lots of people are leaving. [0] They are right in line with much-derided Amazon.

[0] http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_insider/2013/07/28/turno...

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