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There Are Plenty of Jobs Out There, America

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Re: There Are Plenty of Jobs Out There, America

#61
post #3

I feel like I've seen a lot of articles about people who can't find jobs or who are worried about their increasingly-outdated jobs going away in the short term. This article says we also have a lot of jobs that can't find people. What's the missing piece? Re-training? What does that actually look like for a 30- or 40-year-old person who has a family to support and doesn't much care for government handouts?

There is no missing piece, because the first part of your statement isn't backed by fact. There's not a big dark pool of people who can't find jobs. The second part of your first sentence is maybe true, but maybe not. In surveys of Americans most people feel positive about their economic circumstances, at every level of income. 75-80% of Americans report they feel their job is secure[1]. 1: http://kff.org/report-sect…

Other than the 3% of all workers who have become permanently discouraged workers in the past decade, you mean?

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

It's only 5 million people or so, so I guess you're saying that's not "big".

Re: There Are Plenty of Jobs Out There, America

#62
post #23
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hypothesizing, but I imagine a lot of it has to do with geographical mismatch. How many auto-glass installers do you need in Elkhart, Indiana [1]? Or Casper, Wyoming, or Lafayette, Louisiana? EDIT: to expand on my point, in metropolitan areas that are experiencing a population boom, demand creates opportunities for businesses, and therefore opportunities for prospective workers. It's a virtuous cycle. Meanwhile,…

I'd think more in WY or IN due to snow plowing and freeze/thaw cycles.

I lived in indiana the first 30+ years, and live in Norway now. I've never heard of car glass breaking because of the freeze/thaw cycle.

More common, it is things like hail during thunderstorms or gravel from a road.

Re: There Are Plenty of Jobs Out There, America

#63
post #37

This is a bit weird. US unemployment is at 4.6% http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000 US growth is about 2% http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locati... That's really pretty good. Most developed countries would be happy with that.

The US unemployment rate is based on people with zero jobs actively looking. It doesn't include people who've given up on their career and are looking after their kids, hermits in their parents' house, homeless, etc.

That's why you have to include other data, such as the Labor Participation Rate. The LPR which shows how many of the working-age people actually seem to be doing so:

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

So what do you see when both graphs are together:

Both graphs together: http://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/files/201...

It seems safe to assume a large part of the drop isn't because satisfied people are finding jobs, but because fewer people are trying.

Re: There Are Plenty of Jobs Out There, America

#64
post #3

I feel like I've seen a lot of articles about people who can't find jobs or who are worried about their increasingly-outdated jobs going away in the short term. This article says we also have a lot of jobs that can't find people. What's the missing piece? Re-training? What does that actually look like for a 30- or 40-year-old person who has a family to support and doesn't much care for government handouts?

It's speculation, but my take would be that there are two missing pieces: 1) Inadequate pay. 2) Unwillingness to train. If you don't have the exact skills that the company wants, they won't hire you. But they will complain that they can't find anyone even though they are really only offering unskilled level wages.

$10/hour, no benefits.

4 years job experience and college degree required for entry-level job.

No training.

"We can't find anyone"

Re: There Are Plenty of Jobs Out There, America

#65

I'm always baffled by the people in these articles. From the anecdote at the beginning: he's having trouble hiring people for $12/hour (up to $70K/year with bonuses, etc). I am also having trouble hiring people: I need a senior software engineer. Pay is $12/hour. It's taking me a long time to find workers. I guess people are just lazy and don't want to work.

So this job pays $12/hr. Which is $1,555.05/month after tax, assuming 40hr work week. And the average 1-bed apartment rents in North Charleston, SC is roughly $1100/month (according to Zillow), leaving the employee $450/month to cover all food + medical + debt + transit + utilities and any other expenses. I can't imagine why no one is taking the position. It sounds like a fulfilling opportunity to install auto glass…

> "Cheap business owners" couldn't be a more accurate byline.

There have been a number of headlines recently about how corporate profits are near record highs.

Isn't paying employees enough to buy the product considered capitalism 101?

Re: There Are Plenty of Jobs Out There, America

#66

I'm always baffled by the people in these articles. From the anecdote at the beginning: he's having trouble hiring people for $12/hour (up to $70K/year with bonuses, etc). I am also having trouble hiring people: I need a senior software engineer. Pay is $12/hour. It's taking me a long time to find workers. I guess people are just lazy and don't want to work.

So this job pays $12/hr. Which is $1,555.05/month after tax, assuming 40hr work week. And the average 1-bed apartment rents in North Charleston, SC is roughly $1100/month (according to Zillow), leaving the employee $450/month to cover all food + medical + debt + transit + utilities and any other expenses. I can't imagine why no one is taking the position. It sounds like a fulfilling opportunity to install auto glass…

>It's like employers don't even attempt to think about anything from the employee's perspective -- even after they've struggled to fill their own positions. "Cheap business owners" couldn't be a more accurate byline.

Or maybe the job their trying to fill isn't worth that much to them (the employers, that is)?

As an example, let's take a speech-writer for a presidential candidate.

Company X (let's say it has 100 billion in the bank) wants a website, so it looks for an SEO firm, but it's cheap and not interested in investing in the website.

X doesn't get skilled SEO consultants.

X now has three choices - get minimum quality workers, drop the website project or pay more for better workers.

Obviously, workers would prefer if X choses 3, but there are times when it just doesn't make sense to do so (or the company doesn't _think_ it needs to do so, and goes out of business):

What if a company has a small audience comprised of people who don't find things online.

Let's say the company runs a program only senators would use. That's a hundred person market which practically requires personal connection to their staff to make a deal.

Hiring someone for $250,000 website is just not worth it.

Practically, in a capitalist environment, workers are "contractors" selling themselves.

The same way I would not pay for a big-iron computer when all I need is a laptop, companies don't want to pay $200,000 when they can find someone for less.

Re: There Are Plenty of Jobs Out There, America

#67
post #24

I'm always baffled by the people in these articles. From the anecdote at the beginning: he's having trouble hiring people for $12/hour (up to $70K/year with bonuses, etc). I am also having trouble hiring people: I need a senior software engineer. Pay is $12/hour. It's taking me a long time to find workers. I guess people are just lazy and don't want to work.

Yeah, the journos who are writing big articles about big trends always seem to want to anchor them with anecdata from the 2 local guys they talked to, as if that actually sheds light on the situation. Usually it just confirms whatever narrative their story is pushing. I don't know what's a fair price in every area of the country for all of these jobs, so beats me if $12 is good or bad, but beyond this one anecdote, p…

> I don't know what's a fair price in every area of the country for all of these jobs, so beats me if $12 is good or bad, but beyond this one anecdote, people have been saying for years that there was a shortage of skilled labor in the country. So aside from whether this one guy is paying fairly or not, it does appear to be a real issue.

If I say something and I make $N per year for believing that.

Why would they stop saying it?

The truth is, the "shortage" is largely in the poor quality of hiring screens and and a desire to pay the real market rate (rather than the lowest # they can hire the bare minimum of workers to function and work them 50 hours a week).

If a shortage genuinely existed, you would see substantial wage growth.

We don't have such wage growth.

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Similarly, when labor organizations get too powerful you see the opposite effect that creates an artificial shortage:

https://members.aamc.org/eweb/upload/The%20Complexities%20of...

> The rapid expansion in medical education was halted twenty years after it started as researchers, policymakers, and the educational community reassessed the need for further growth. This change recognized that the doubling of medical school graduates would lead to a growing supply for at least 35 years. In 1980, the Graduate Medical Education National Advisory Committee (GMENAC) reported (based upon the number of physicians needed to provide “necessary and appropriate” services) that a surplus of 70,000 physicians would be likely by the year 2000.20 With the promotion of tightly controlled managed care in the early 1990s, many groups reaffirmed the belief that the nation was facing a surplus. The national Council on Graduate Medical Education (COGME),21 the National Academy of Science’s Institute of Medicine (IOM), the Pew Health Professions Commission,22 the AAMC,23 the AMA24 and other national physician associations expressed concerns about an impending potential surplus of physicians.

> The medical education and training community responded to these recommendations. The number of graduates from U.S. medical schools remained virtually unchanged between 1980 and 2005. Despite this stagnation in medical school enrollment, the doubling of medical school enrollment during the 1960s and 1970s led to a steady stream of new physicians entering the workforce at a rate greater than those leaving the field. Consequently, the ratio of physicians to population increased steadily from 1980 onward. However, few health policy experts in the year 2000 would have argued that this constituted a surplus of physicians, even though this number grew from 202 per 100,000 in 1980 to 276 per 100,000 in 2000. 29 Bureau of Health Professions projections had estimated that physician demand - not a defined need - would increase over time. In fact, per capita utilization of medical services did rise as they had suggested it would.30 Other analyses had assumed major cost and utilization controls in health care.31

https://www.aamc.org/newsroom/newsreleases/458074/2016_workf...

> Washington, D.C., April 5, 2016—Under every combination of scenarios modeled, the United States will face a shortage of physicians over the next decade, according to a physician workforce report released today by the AAMC (Association of American Medical Colleges). The projections show a shortage ranging between 61,700 and 94,700, with a significant shortage showing among many surgical specialties.

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Re: There Are Plenty of Jobs Out There, America

#68
post #37

This is a bit weird. US unemployment is at 4.6% http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000 US growth is about 2% http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locati... That's really pretty good. Most developed countries would be happy with that.

2% growth is very low. Jobs =! well paying secure jobs.

And well paying isn't even necessarily a measure of your ability to participate in the consumer economy.

In this day and age it's whether you can afford health care, child care, and education - all of which are essential for a healthy society.

Re: There Are Plenty of Jobs Out There, America

#69
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the journos who are writing big articles about big trends always seem to want to anchor them with anecdata from the 2 local guys they talked to, as if that actually sheds light on the situation. Usually it just confirms whatever narrative their story is pushing. I don't know what's a fair price in every area of the country for all of these jobs, so beats me if $12 is good or bad, but beyond this one anecdote, p…

It doesn't really matter if $12/hour is good or bad. If you're having trouble finding new workers, you're going to have to poach from the existing labor pool (aka from your competition) with higher wages and better benefits. If you can't pay the same wage as your competition because your business is swimming in overhead costs, then you will soon go out of business in favor of your more efficient competition. I believ…

[deleted]

Re: There Are Plenty of Jobs Out There, America

#70
post #63
post #37

This is a bit weird. US unemployment is at 4.6% http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000 US growth is about 2% http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locati... That's really pretty good. Most developed countries would be happy with that.

The US unemployment rate is based on people with zero jobs actively looking. It doesn't include people who've given up on their career and are looking after their kids, hermits in their parents' house, homeless, etc. That's why you have to include other data, such as the Labor Participation Rate. The LPR which shows how many of the working-age people actually seem to be doing so: http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS113…

The same holds for other countries. The US is still doing reasonably well in comparison

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/labor-force-par...

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