My Priorities for the Next Four Years • Hacker News Board

Re: My Priorities for the Next Four Years

#131

Post by CPAhem » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 7:21 PM UTC

pg314 wrote: post #116

clarkmoody wrote: post #71

> And if there's a major terrorist attack under Trump's watch, it'll be open season on our liberties. I'm starting to believe that there is not a single world leader who is more than one crisis away from "reluctantly" assuming dictatorial powers. And the populations of advanced economies have no conception of the value of their liberty, since they so willingly give it away.

I think in Europe the reactions are usually a little more measured. After the attacks in Paris and Brussels, there was a reaction and a rise in populism, but I wouldn't call it assuming dictatorial powers. I don't think it could be compared to Trump's reaction in the hypothetical case where there was a similar terrorist attack in e.g. New York.

It's interesting that countries like Germany where the population experienced the Nazis and the Stasi are the leaders in resisting this populism.

In the US, we probably don't understand how bad it can get yet.

Re: My Priorities for the Next Four Years

#132

Post by pg314 » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 7:37 PM UTC

CPAhem wrote: post #131

pg314 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in Europe the reactions are usually a little more measured. After the attacks in Paris and Brussels, there was a reaction and a rise in populism, but I wouldn't call it assuming dictatorial powers. I don't think it could be compared to Trump's reaction in the hypothetical case where there was a similar terrorist attack in e.g. New York.

It's interesting that countries like Germany where the population experienced the Nazis and the Stasi are the leaders in resisting this populism. In the US, we probably don't understand how bad it can get yet.

Europe also has had more experience with organised terrorism in the 20th century: Rote Armee Fraktion in Germany, CCC in Belgium, ETA in Basque country, IRA in Ireland, to name just a few. That might also partly explain why the reactions to terror attacks are more measured.

Re: My Priorities for the Next Four Years

#133

Post by weaksauce » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 7:38 PM UTC

CPAhem wrote: post #131

pg314 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in Europe the reactions are usually a little more measured. After the attacks in Paris and Brussels, there was a reaction and a rise in populism, but I wouldn't call it assuming dictatorial powers. I don't think it could be compared to Trump's reaction in the hypothetical case where there was a similar terrorist attack in e.g. New York.

It's interesting that countries like Germany where the population experienced the Nazis and the Stasi are the leaders in resisting this populism. In the US, we probably don't understand how bad it can get yet.

And, over time, they too will start to forget just how bad it was. It's just how humans are wired.

Re: My Priorities for the Next Four Years

#134

Post by CurtMonash » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 7:41 PM UTC

MrZongle2 wrote: post #89

Key sentence: "Under a Clinton administration, my list would have looked much the same." I have a lot of respect for Mr. Schneier. But he is fooling himself if he thinks a Clinton administration would be one iota less threatening.

No, he is correct.

A typical Administration tries for the power to utterly trample liberties, but then is fairly modest about how it actually uses the power. This is, in itself, concerning but not necessarily catastrophic. After all, the government also has the guns and other weapons to kill us all, but probably isn't going to do that either.

The catastrophes occur when the government is less restrained in using the massive power it always has.

Re: My Priorities for the Next Four Years

#135

Post by jjwiseman » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 7:49 PM UTC

matt4077 wrote: post #84

potatolicious wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "the one in Cupertino only takes a lukewarm stance on privacy" Genuinely curious - but how so? My observation of Apple so far is that they've taken a remarkably strong privacy stance. Not maintaining logs of iMessage, keeping nearly all personal data on-device, ensuring analytics do not leak personal data, going above and beyond to ensure their customers' devices are strongly encrypted (and exceptionally difficult…

Indeed. They stared down the FBI with engineers threatening to quit and/or go to jail rather than compromising their users' phones. That had the enormous risk of making them unpalatable to the conservative half of the nation. Compare to yahoo, where they apparently handed out data to anyone asking, and not a single person considered it m0re important than their paycheck.

A single person reportedly did consider it more important: "According to two of the former employees, Yahoo Chief Executive Marissa Mayer's decision to obey the directive roiled some senior executives and led to the June 2015 departure of Chief Information Security Officer Alex Stamos, who now holds the top security job at Facebook Inc."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-yahoo-nsa-exclusive-idUSKC...

Re: My Priorities for the Next Four Years

#136

Post by mangodrunk » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 7:52 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #126

drieddust wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That won't be enough to get Trump another four years if he doesn't deliver during the first four. Not to be confronting but Obama got elected twice. Did he delivered the first time?

Obama probably shouldn't have been elected twice... but the Republicans ran Romney. He was nearly as hard to get excited about as Hillary. Obama, on the other hand, was very good at inspiring people. Did he deliver? Well, the economy didn't crater into a Great Depression, so kind of yes. But he left us with a not-really-recovered economy in 2012, so kind of no. Look, I may be under-rating Trump's ability to genuinely…

Let's also not forget that Trump lost the popular vote, so if we didn't have this arcane system, he would have lost. The majority of people (who at least voted, I imagine most people who didn't vote would have gone with the Democrat) didn't vote for him.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/dec/...

Re: My Priorities for the Next Four Years

#137

Post by eli_gottlieb » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 8:26 PM UTC

Clubber wrote: post #122

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If it were Exxon-Mobile doing the same thing, you would have pause, even if they were saying the right things. The CEO of Exxon-Mobil is going to be Secretary of State.

Yes, I'm aware of that, but being Secretary of State and putting candidates in elections every year while only allowing 1 other real competitor (the other party) to compete are completely different levels. Imagine if there was the Republican party and the Exxon-Mobile party.

I don't have to imagine. North Carolina is actually changing which powers are allocated to which offices based on the fact that a Democrat won the election.

The country is becoming a one-party state.

Re: My Priorities for the Next Four Years

#138

Post by SamReidHughes » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 8:30 PM UTC

karim wrote: post #30

jstewartmobile wrote: post #26

Brother Bruce has been fighting the righteous fight for a long time now, and he has been doing it with minimal ego and loads of class. And here is he is trying to lift the spirits of the anti-Trump privacy folks. What's wrong with that? Where's the love y'all?

I wouldn't read too much into this. People on Hacker News have this pavlovian need to contradict any article they're commenting on. If Schneier was saying the task was too big, you'd have people saying he's giving up too easily.

No, it's that people that disagree with an article are more likely to comment.

Re: My Priorities for the Next Four Years

#139

Post by robotresearcher » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 8:55 PM UTC

clarkmoody wrote: post #71

> And if there's a major terrorist attack under Trump's watch, it'll be open season on our liberties. I'm starting to believe that there is not a single world leader who is more than one crisis away from "reluctantly" assuming dictatorial powers. And the populations of advanced economies have no conception of the value of their liberty, since they so willingly give it away.

There have been bombings, gun battles and other mass murders in the streets of Paris, Marseille and elsewhere in Europe, and no sign of dictatorships.

Re: My Priorities for the Next Four Years

#140

Post by tptacek » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 9:14 PM UTC

nickpsecurity wrote: post #128

tptacek wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What other similar things have you tried to organize? How many people got involved? What were the outcomes?

I have to keep the details private. All involved under 30 people who had some fight in them and motivation to resist in direction I pushed. First one all but me backed out on key moment with one selling me out. Others had similar pattern with lots of support in those that talk , too few actually acting , some ratting, and it fizzling out as actors get scared or removed from a situation with too many talkers. All went…

Ok, but right now we're closing on on 1300 signatures for the NeverAgain.tech pledge. I'm not so worried about the kinds of things that happen in 30 person groups, though I recognize those things are real.