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The bank lent me $2m so I spent it on strippers and cars

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Re: The bank lent me $2m so I spent it on strippers and cars

#141

Post by abiox »

raesene6 wrote: post #127
scotty79 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without ever intending to pay it back How can you know that? He himself writes that he was waiting for the bank to ask for some money back and intended to deal with it when it comes. Lack of detailed planning for something isn't the same as lack of intention to do something when it happens. Lots of people take loans without precisely knowing where they'll find money to pay them back.

That's easy, he had no money to pay it back, ergo it's fair to conclude he had no intention of paying it back. It's one thing to go a couple of thousand overdrawn, quite another to spend $2 million when you have no source of income.

> he had no money to pay it back, ergo it's fair to conclude he had no intention of paying

i don't think that would stand in any court. the former doesn't imply the latter by necessity.

Re: The bank lent me $2m so I spent it on strippers and cars

#142

Post by mempko »

sflcnetwork wrote: post #17

It's unbelievable how the bank didn't notice for that long. That goes to show the power of what a sysadmin at a bank can have, take money and cover his/her tracks. Unfortunately for this guy he was in no such position.

A loan is an asset on a bank's books. I think it's obvious why they don't care until, well, you know.

Re: The bank lent me $2m so I spent it on strippers and cars

#143

Post by hsod »

scotty79 wrote: post #104
pktgen wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He did nothing to defraud the bank or mislead it. He simply had access to a large line of credit, and used it. If the bank wants it's money back, that's a civil matter, not a criminal one. It's their responsibility to ask for it back. He was drawing on this line of credit, which he knew he was legally obligated to pay back, without ever intending to pay it back. That sure seems like fraud to me. There is a differen…

> without ever intending to pay it back How can you know that? He himself writes that he was waiting for the bank to ask for some money back and intended to deal with it when it comes. Lack of detailed planning for something isn't the same as lack of intention to do something when it happens. Lots of people take loans without precisely knowing where they'll find money to pay them back.

Sure, maybe he was planning to win the lottery when the payment came due.

The question to me is, do you think he took and spent the money with the expectation that he would be able to pay it back? Seems pretty obvious the answer is no.

Not saying he should be locked up, but let's be reasonable here.

Re: The bank lent me $2m so I spent it on strippers and cars

#144

Post by [deleted] »

scotty79 wrote: post #104
pktgen wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He did nothing to defraud the bank or mislead it. He simply had access to a large line of credit, and used it. If the bank wants it's money back, that's a civil matter, not a criminal one. It's their responsibility to ask for it back. He was drawing on this line of credit, which he knew he was legally obligated to pay back, without ever intending to pay it back. That sure seems like fraud to me. There is a differen…

> without ever intending to pay it back How can you know that? He himself writes that he was waiting for the bank to ask for some money back and intended to deal with it when it comes. Lack of detailed planning for something isn't the same as lack of intention to do something when it happens. Lots of people take loans without precisely knowing where they'll find money to pay them back.

[deleted]

Re: The bank lent me $2m so I spent it on strippers and cars

#145

Post by Someone »

raesene6 wrote: post #127
scotty79 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without ever intending to pay it back How can you know that? He himself writes that he was waiting for the bank to ask for some money back and intended to deal with it when it comes. Lack of detailed planning for something isn't the same as lack of intention to do something when it happens. Lots of people take loans without precisely knowing where they'll find money to pay them back.

That's easy, he had no money to pay it back, ergo it's fair to conclude he had no intention of paying it back. It's one thing to go a couple of thousand overdrawn, quite another to spend $2 million when you have no source of income.

"Have no money to pay it back" applies to many companies (including many banks) that borrowed money and to many house owners, too. Would you conclude they have no intention of paying it back, too?

Many companies also spend money they lent on frivolous stuff (end of year parties, football tables, etc) that doesn't obviously contribute to the bottom line, so buying some booze and spending some money on strippers, in itself, isn't fraud.

Back to this case: I can see how this would be "obtaining financial advantage by deception and knowingly dealing with the proceeds of crime", just as taking money from someone's open purse would be.

Re: The bank lent me $2m so I spent it on strippers and cars

#146

Post by Retric »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #116
1024core wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But he didn't take out a loan. The bank kept giving him money whenever he wanted to withdraw it. That is not a loan. A loan requires explicit agreement and a fixed amount.

He signed a contract when he opened up the bank account. That contract would have included clauses establishing liability for overdrafts, even if the bank account didn't include an overdraft facility.

Last time I opened a bank account there was only a specific penalty for overdraft, but nothing beyond that in the contract.

Re: The bank lent me $2m so I spent it on strippers and cars

#147

Post by hsod »

yequalsx wrote: post #64
dgreensp wrote: post #59

> I was just unlucky I guess that it happened to me. People like this who have no sense of personal responsibility are an evil in the world. He spends millions of dollars of other people's money, declares bankruptcy (presumably), and when his actions are deemed dishonest and immoral, though not technically illegal, he acts like that's just name-calling and gets right back up on his high horse. Remind you of any Presi…

A loan is a two party relationship and both parties have responsibilities. Also there are known consequences to default. Defaulting on a loan has nothin to do with morality as far as I'm concerned. If you are fine with the consequences of default then do so. It's not immoral as everyone knows the risk/consequences.

So if your friend tells you he's hard up for rent and you loan him 1000 dollars he can decide not to pay you back and it "has nothin to do with morality"? After all, you were aware of the risk that he wouldn't pay you back.

Re: The bank lent me $2m so I spent it on strippers and cars

#149

Post by BeetleB »

Reminds me of something that happened back when I still had a landline.

They incorrectly billed us over $2000. We argued with them and they reversed the charges - twice.

So now my balance showed a credit of $2000. I kept calling them back and they said they couldn't see anything wrong on my account.

This went on for months. A number of times the person on the phone said "Well just don't tell anyone!". I asked for that in writing and then they sighed and said "I'll put a note in for someone to look at it."

I was blown away by how many friends of mine got mad at me for trying to fix it. Does anyone really think this would go unnoticed forever?

Re: The bank lent me $2m so I spent it on strippers and cars

#150

Post by yequalsx »

hsod wrote: post #147
yequalsx wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A loan is a two party relationship and both parties have responsibilities. Also there are known consequences to default. Defaulting on a loan has nothin to do with morality as far as I'm concerned. If you are fine with the consequences of default then do so. It's not immoral as everyone knows the risk/consequences.

So if your friend tells you he's hard up for rent and you loan him 1000 dollars he can decide not to pay you back and it "has nothin to do with morality"? After all, you were aware of the risk that he wouldn't pay you back.

One should never lend money to friends. Make it a gift. Never have an expectation of getting it back. One lending money the person should understand this but not everyone does. In the situation a friends it would be immoral to not try to pay it back. In the situation of the lender being an expert who understand the pricing of loans and understands the risks then it isn't a moral issue.
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