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The mystique of Goldman Sachs

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Re: The mystique of Goldman Sachs

#41
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would make markets less efficient and thus allocate capital in a worse manner.

Less efficient for literally 50 ms. Then it all balances out.

The world GDP is about $76 trillion; that means that the global economy produces about $120,000/ in 50 ms. Reducing the time to work on a trade from 100 to 50 ms gives a trading algorithm that much of an edge, which ultimately helps increase the size of that $76 trillion pie.

Re: The mystique of Goldman Sachs

#43
post #27
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's disgusting to me that that much brainpower was/is dedicated to stock trading. All that programming and the only thing we get for it is that we can correctly value a company.

> It's disgusting to me that that much brainpower was/is dedicated to stock trading. s/stock trading/advertising.

Isn't this capitalism though? Companies are competing on products and it's cheaper to advertise than to innovate, leading companies inexorably down this route.

Re: The mystique of Goldman Sachs

#44

If the market is so efficient why are so many people working in it? The answer is it's parasitic. They don't allocate capital efficiently, progress has slowed dramatically in the west and a culture of rent seeking has taken over. It's a huge misallocation of resources but of course people simply point to the fact that they are "making money" as a sign of success. And yes, they are indeed "making money". That is the p…

Market efficiency and the number of humans involved are unrelated. When people talk about market efficiency they are talking about the markets ability to quickly allocate capital where it is needed at a "fair" price. I think the comments about the industry being largely parasitic are generally correct. They real issue is that if there is a 100 billion dollar transaction taking place and you can make that happen 1% mo…

The fact that financial firms are massively profitable does indeed suggest that it's an inefficient market.

In an efficient market there's "no free lunch"--because somebody else comes along and eats it. If the financial sector were efficient, competition would drive down profits.

This is in fact happening to some extent with passively-managed index funds like Vanguard taking up a larger and larger share of investors' deposits, but it's been a surprisingly slow process.

Re: The mystique of Goldman Sachs

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not going to comment specifically on the judgement (I agree in general terms). However that is a vast mis-understanding of what a lot of the brain power at an investment bank goes towards. It isn't just equities it is fixed-income and economics as well. But beyond that it isn't just about valuation. It is everything from working on how to actually clear transactions, building dark pools and similar platforms, researc…

Right, but all of what they are doing is self-serving. They develop these things to give their client portfolios an edge over other investment firms. They aren't developing these technologies to apply them to healthcare or general science, it's just to give them an edge in the investment business. For a company of their size and wealth, their open source contributions are paltry. A handy way to deal with arrays in Ja…

[deleted]

Re: The mystique of Goldman Sachs

#46
Obligatory: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american...

"The first thing you need to know about Goldman Sachs is that it's everywhere. The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money. In fact, the history of the recent financial crisis, which doubles as a history of the rapid decline and fall of the suddenly swindled dry American empire, reads like a Who's Who of Goldman Sachs graduates."

Re: The mystique of Goldman Sachs

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not going to comment specifically on the judgement (I agree in general terms). However that is a vast mis-understanding of what a lot of the brain power at an investment bank goes towards. It isn't just equities it is fixed-income and economics as well. But beyond that it isn't just about valuation. It is everything from working on how to actually clear transactions, building dark pools and similar platforms, researc…

Right, but all of what they are doing is self-serving. They develop these things to give their client portfolios an edge over other investment firms. They aren't developing these technologies to apply them to healthcare or general science, it's just to give them an edge in the investment business. For a company of their size and wealth, their open source contributions are paltry. A handy way to deal with arrays in Ja…

What you are saying applies to a lot of companies. Most companies in fact are essentially only self-serving, and if we're talking about open source contributions I can make an argument that outside of the big 3, nearly every valley company's FOSS contributions are paltry "for their size and wealth".

Re: The mystique of Goldman Sachs

#48
post #6
post #4

One thing HN might care about: 3 years ago, 25% of Goldman employees worked in the IT division. They probably had more developers than Facebook and LinkedIn combined. http://www.businessinsider.com/goldman-sachs-has-more-engine...

It's disgusting to me that that much brainpower was/is dedicated to stock trading. All that programming and the only thing we get for it is that we can correctly value a company.

The beauty of capitalism, we get what people are willing to pay for (or what the government forces them to pay for).

Re: The mystique of Goldman Sachs

#49

If the market is so efficient why are so many people working in it? The answer is it's parasitic. They don't allocate capital efficiently, progress has slowed dramatically in the west and a culture of rent seeking has taken over. It's a huge misallocation of resources but of course people simply point to the fact that they are "making money" as a sign of success. And yes, they are indeed "making money". That is the p…

While I agree its parasitic, I dont think its the end of the world. Its more like they are taking all of the cream from the milk, and just delivering skim milk to consumers with out telling them. People notice the milk is different, but can't quite put a finger on it. Its just part of the problem with income inequality.

Okay that taking the cream part, which you clearly agree with. That is doing enormous damage. This is IMHO why you have Trump. The system simply is not allocating resources to people who are creating value.

Re: The mystique of Goldman Sachs

#50
post #6
post #4

One thing HN might care about: 3 years ago, 25% of Goldman employees worked in the IT division. They probably had more developers than Facebook and LinkedIn combined. http://www.businessinsider.com/goldman-sachs-has-more-engine...

It's disgusting to me that that much brainpower was/is dedicated to stock trading. All that programming and the only thing we get for it is that we can correctly value a company.

Let's, for an argument sake, believe that what Goldman Sachs does is hideous, counter-productive horseshit. Following that, let's outlaw the giant, and move all its employees into a more productive force. What do we have? Do we have more minds working on real problems like cure of cancer? I guess not; the probable result is thousands of unemployed programmers. It's a misguided belief that we can solve more problems with more people working towards them, which reeks of the same ideology that Fred Brooks tried to acknowledge in Mythical Man-month, that it's possible to build Software faster by adding more people to the project.

If there is a prevalent sentiment that too many companies are starting up in the valley with nonsensical business models, how can we say with the straight eye that more programmers are needed to be shifted to create even more companies.

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