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Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

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Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#461

Post by rurban »

There are already a bunch of valid arguments made here. Double salary, double career opportunities vs 2-4x expenses for rent and food, opportunism all over.

But the biggest contra argument I had was the Diablo nuclear power station directly at the coast (protected by 6m walls) and directly near the a huge fault which will hit soon. The other 3 corners of the Pacific ring of fire already hit their 9.x in the last decade, San Fran not yet. And this will be in the country, not 50 miles outside. If so you get the Diablo meltdown by tsunami, if not something much worse. And then the career in this company will only be short term.

So not.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#462

Post by s3nnyy »

There is no doubt that the big four (Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook) and hot tech startups like Airbnb pay really well.

However, I think that "normal" companies in the Bay Area pay normal salaries.

If you are a normal software engineer, who wants to have a family, you are better off in Zurich. Here you can make similar money and have lower living expenses.

Disclaimer: I run coderfit.com, a platform which should become hired.com / triplebyte of Europe and I live in Zurich. Read my story about Zurich that I wrote two years ago: "8 reasons why I moved to Switzerland to work in tech" - https://medium.com/@iwaninzurich/eight-reasons-why-i-moved-t...

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#463

Post by chris_7 »

reality_czech wrote: post #443
automatwon wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might as well live in Washington at that point. No state income tax, while there is Oregon state income tax. Then again, Washington has sales tax, whereas Oregon does not. I used to live in Portland, and some peopled lived / worked in Vancouver, Washington, and drove to Portland to do all their shopping, groceries included.

It's really cold and wet all the time. Non-compete agreements are valid so prepare to be screwed over if you change jobs. You don't have the California code on your side if you want to do a side project-- it will be owned by your employer. Amazon will work you like a rented mule and that bald guy in charge is creepy as fuck. Traffic in Seattle is worse than the Bay Area (yes really). They can't expand I-95 because th…

> They can't expand I-95 because they made the decision to tunnel it through a building (long story)

Expanding highways makes traffic worse.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#464

Post by geggam »

Yes, If you have never been around Silicon Valley culture do experience it. The culture and knowledge sharing is invaluable.

If you have a family do not go to Silicon Valley.

Loved living in the Bay Area.

Hated the commute. Hated the prices of everything.

Loved the culture. Loved the crazy you can only find in SF ( altho much of that is moving to places like that warehouse which burned in Oakland ) Loved the beautiful ocean beaches.

Rent prices... well... you will lose money moving to the bay unless you get a ludicrous salary.

Single.. I wouldnt hesitate. Married with kids. Stay away from The Bay.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#465

Post by alexhutcheson »

rurban wrote: post #461

There are already a bunch of valid arguments made here. Double salary, double career opportunities vs 2-4x expenses for rent and food, opportunism all over. But the biggest contra argument I had was the Diablo nuclear power station directly at the coast (protected by 6m walls) and directly near the a huge fault which will hit soon. The other 3 corners of the Pacific ring of fire already hit their 9.x in the last deca…

The Diablo plant is more than 180 miles down the coast from San Jose. What specifically are you worried about?

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#466

Post by fraculto09 »

komali2 wrote: post #325
sporkenfang wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I'm working on a side project, don't want VC funding (or any sort of loans), and just want to build organically? I can find people who can program and can program well in almost any place on the planet. There are a shitload of Russians and Chinese cleaning up at things in the software engineering domain. There are a shitload of people writing all kinds of good and bad code everywhere. Even if I wanted to foun…

If you can afford to pay a couple Chinese programmers this isn't a bad idea. You run the risk of your code just vanishing and a eerily similar Chinese product appearing a few months later, but depending on your financial situation you can be a sole funder in that case. Not that I have anything against using out of country programmers, but it's a fact that China does not strongly enforce copyright and does not go out…

You can just choose countries with Western culture that didn't have too much luck economy-wise in the recent years, but have stable states and law. That usually means Central/Eastern Europe: Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia and so on. Avoid Belarus, Ukraine and others with heavy eastern influences (a rule of thumb: if they use Latin alphabet, there's a good chance that it's safe).

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#467

Post by ghaff »

therealpeal wrote: post #375
Mz wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am having enormous difficulty parsing that comment. I have tried to just let it go, but I am failing at that, and I am seriously struggling to reply in a way that does not sound like snark. Could you clarify what you mean? Because it sounds like either you are saying "Culture only exists in tiny parts of certain places, no place else in the South Bay even has a culture" (which is utterly nonsensical) or maybe you a…

I think what he is saying is that the South Bay is completely without culture, unless you count strip malls and chain restaurants.

"Chain restaurants" Really? I don't even live in the Bay area but I visit a fair bit on business and I don't know the last time I've eaten at a chain either in the city or the South Bay.

But the South Bay is basically suburbia, SJ technically being a "city" notwithstanding. So just like pretty much every other urban area in the US, there's enormously more "culture" (in the Arts, Theater, and Culture section of the newspaper sense) in the city, SF in this case, than in the suburbs.

Boston/Cambridge are exactly the same way. I live well West and like it but if I want to go to see a show or music performance, 95% of the time I'm going to drive into town.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#468

Post by vonmoltke »

Rapzid wrote: post #412
shostack wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget about home repairs and renovations, HOA, and services like gardening, etc. depending on what you buy. It is easy to end up spending double rent on a comparable place. The difference is for now at least the home you buy can grow nicely so you need to do the math on rate of return for that vs other uses of that cash.

And closing/financing fees! If you end up taking a job out of area and decide to sell(understandable as now isn't the right time to be purchasing a rental) you're out the fees.

If you live in an area with closing fees on rentals, like I do, rhat's a wash.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#469

Post by driverdan »

pmoriarty wrote: post #272
josh_carterPDX wrote: post #143

As someone who grew up in the Bay Area, but moved to Portland about three years ago, I can tell you there is a stark difference in ecosystems. However, if you are a young up-and-coming programmer coming out of school, it makes complete sense to move to the Bay Area. If you're an Actor you move to L.A. to get your big break. If you're a programmer, you go to the Bay Area to work for a big firm that will help build you…

I considered moving to Portland, until I read about how a big earthquake would pretty much completely wipe it out: http://www.oregonlive.com/earthquakes/index.ssf/2015/07/the_...

You realize the Bay Area is likely to be devastated by a large earthquake too right?

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#470

Post by driverdan »

bradlys wrote: post #119
nostrademons wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes about 2 years to save up $100K on a typical Bay Area engineer's salary, if you're fiscally prudent. Figure that $150K/year after taxes is about $110K/year, and live on $60K/year. That's eminently doable even in the Bay Area. The problem is that $100K is a very low estimate for a down payment in the Bay Area these days. Most people I know are getting parental help to put down $500K down, because with housing…

Sorry, I live here. I have an average salary for my experience. I can barely save $20k/yr. My rent+util is about $2000/month. I live in a very /cheap/ 1-bedroom with creaky carpet floors, no insulation, and near train tracks that's far outside SF. (Belmont) Altogether I spend close to $4000/month if I don't do anything special. /Everything/ is more expensive in this region. Food is expensive for no apparent reason ot…

> Altogether I spend close to $4000/month if I don't do anything special.

That's including rent right? If so that's not too bad.

> Food is expensive for no apparent reason other than to gouge customers.

Stop shopping at overpriced pseudoscience stores (eg Whole Foods). Regular grocery stores are not that expensive. Or buy in bulk at Costco.

> My job doesn't provide lunches, so I have to eat out everyday I'm at work.

Bring food from home and stop wasting money on buying lunch.

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