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Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

nytimes.com

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Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#101

Post by notacoward »

hueving wrote: post #40
notacoward wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything done excessively can be unhealthy, by definition, but there's only a grain of truth to what you're saying. To your point 1: done properly, running isn't particularly harmful to joints and tendons, and some studies even seem to show that running can be beneficial in that regard[1]. The rapid changes in direction that cause the most stress are less prevalent in running than just about any other sport, not even…

Biking, swimming, and rowing are all better on the joints than the impact from running. >P.S. Instead of getting your friends to downvote, how about suggesting an actually-healthy alternative? Don't complain about downvotes, it makes for boring conversation.

Good thing that's not all I wrote, then. Kudos for ignoring most of the rest to focus on that.

As for the other part of your comment, when I mentioned swimming etc. in the context of overall benefit, not harm to joints. I've yet to see evidence that cycling is easier on the joints, and I've seen plenty that it's slightly below running in terms of aerobic benefit. Sure, an elite cyclist probably has a higher VO2max than I do, but if we compare apples to apples then we'd have to compare to an elite marathon runner and I don't think that comparison would look so good.

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#102

Post by notacoward »

FrancoDiaz wrote: post #71
notacoward wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything done excessively can be unhealthy, by definition, but there's only a grain of truth to what you're saying. To your point 1: done properly, running isn't particularly harmful to joints and tendons, and some studies even seem to show that running can be beneficial in that regard[1]. The rapid changes in direction that cause the most stress are less prevalent in running than just about any other sport, not even…

I've been running for years and enjoy running, but everything he said is pretty much true...well, the boring part for me is obviously not true. #2 (elevated cortisol levels) is a huge problem that is rarely discussed though. I'm still trying to figure that one out.

So 1/3 is "everything" to you? Also, elevated cortisol levels are associated with any exercise done to excess. Why single out running? Why focus on the negative? Running might not be the best possible exercise, there might be others that are even better, but it's highly accessible and running is overall better than not doing anything. That's totally lost in all the FUD the OP was slinging.

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#103

Post by agumonkey »

eutectic wrote: post #11
gragas wrote: post #7

I hate how much the authors of this article imply causality. >There also, interestingly, was less activity among the runners in a part of the brain that tends to indicate lack of focus and mind wandering. Could it not be that people who have the willpower to run regularly also have the willpower to stay focused? >In essence, the runners seemed to have brains in which certain cognitive skills, including multitasking a…

There are plenty of compelling arguments against excessive running: 1) It is destructive to your joints and tendons. Injury rates are very high among runners. 2) It is stressful, resulting in chronically elevated cortisol levels. 3) It is time consuming and boring (of course this is subjective), and very inefficient at improving fitness.

3) is extremely subjective. I have a love for running. You can say it's repetitive, dull, hurtful .. and I'd agree totally.

I was extremely ill last year, couldn't even jog; the first time I could sustain mild jogging I cried of happiness.

I love all kinds of sports, biking, skating, soccer, tennis, badminton you name it. Yet running has a special wire in my spine. When you're in flow, you feel like flying, it's a bit surreal. I'm not a regular runner anymore and I can't have long periods like these but still.

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#104

Post by notacoward »

cortesoft wrote: post #45
notacoward wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything done excessively can be unhealthy, by definition, but there's only a grain of truth to what you're saying. To your point 1: done properly, running isn't particularly harmful to joints and tendons, and some studies even seem to show that running can be beneficial in that regard[1]. The rapid changes in direction that cause the most stress are less prevalent in running than just about any other sport, not even…

The person you responded to never said that exercise is bad, or that being fit isn't important. They simply were responding to the statement that they had never heard an argument that running could be bad. You really jumped to conclusions by assuming they were saying exercise is not valuable.

> The person you responded to never said that exercise is bad

I never said that they did. Who's jumping to conclusions now? The person I was responding to clearly has an axe to grind with running specifically, and the most likely reason is that they prefer something else. I see that a lot from lifters and cyclists especially. For some reason they feel a need to explain why their choice is as good as running, which is in itself interesting. I don't see swimmers (for example) who feel compelled to explain why their choice is as good as running. Nor do I see anyone trying to impugn exercise in general (because that would be stupid).

I don't know what sport/exercise that person prefers, though, because they didn't say. It would have been nice if they had, to balance out the relentless negativity. When one casually equates "regularly" with "excessive" and then lists only negatives, it implies an overall negative. Identifying a basis for comparison might have been enlightening instead of offensive.

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#105

Post by agumonkey »

gragas wrote: post #7

I hate how much the authors of this article imply causality. >There also, interestingly, was less activity among the runners in a part of the brain that tends to indicate lack of focus and mind wandering. Could it not be that people who have the willpower to run regularly also have the willpower to stay focused? >In essence, the runners seemed to have brains in which certain cognitive skills, including multitasking a…

Maybe it's just that a prolongated uneasy physical activity trains people into not quitting and understand early sensations are only transient. Just a thought.

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#106

Post by qznc »

nabla9 wrote: post #53
eutectic wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of compelling arguments against excessive running: 1) It is destructive to your joints and tendons. Injury rates are very high among runners. 2) It is stressful, resulting in chronically elevated cortisol levels. 3) It is time consuming and boring (of course this is subjective), and very inefficient at improving fitness.

1) The idea that running is bad for your knees and joints is a popular fitness myth. According to several studies runners, even those who have run competitively for many years, do not have an increased prevalence of osteoarthritis. 2) Chronically elevated cortisol levels are result of overtraining. If you do that, you are doing it wrong. Overtraining happens when a person experiences stress and physical trauma from e…

> According to several studies runners, even those who have run competitively for many years, do not have an increased prevalence of osteoarthritis.

That smells like survivorship bias to me. ;)

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#107

Post by agumonkey »

nabla9 wrote: post #53
eutectic wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of compelling arguments against excessive running: 1) It is destructive to your joints and tendons. Injury rates are very high among runners. 2) It is stressful, resulting in chronically elevated cortisol levels. 3) It is time consuming and boring (of course this is subjective), and very inefficient at improving fitness.

1) The idea that running is bad for your knees and joints is a popular fitness myth. According to several studies runners, even those who have run competitively for many years, do not have an increased prevalence of osteoarthritis. 2) Chronically elevated cortisol levels are result of overtraining. If you do that, you are doing it wrong. Overtraining happens when a person experiences stress and physical trauma from e…

I really wonder how barefoot runners fare on 1) The sensitivity of your feet forbid any kind of pressure, I believe you end up running softly naturally. If true that would be very funny.

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#108

Post by auxym »

rdmsr wrote: post #75
paulddraper wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#1 and #2 seem reasonable points, but > very inefficient at improving fitness Efficiency relative to what? Time? Joules? Cost? I'm skeptical running is "inefficient" at improving fitness.

Not sure what is meant by that commenter, but weight loss and strength gains are common goals which running isn't the most efficient at achieving. Obviously, it still impacts these and, obviously, those aren't goals for everyone. Running is great at improving cardiovascular output (honestly not sure how it compares to biking and swimming), but that isn't all of fitness.

According to this [1], running is much more efficient at improving cardiovascular endurance than biking, in terms of time spent training for a particular gain. Particularly trail running.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Training-New-Alpinism-Climber-Athlete...

(ps. As someone who is sort of a weekend outdoors entusiast, without being any kind of a competitive climber or particularly interested in training, I thought it was an interesting read and would recommend.

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#109

Post by naasking »

brianwawok wrote: post #38
naasking wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Running is not great for losing weight Since when? I'd like a citation on that.

As a sometimes fat runner, I cite myself. Weight is won or lost in the kitchen. Full stop. A 1 hour run might burn 500 calories. If you go and eat till you are not hungry, you can easily eat 800 or 900 calories. You are not going to lose much weight at the method.

> Weight is won or lost in the kitchen. Full stop.

I think this is disingenuous. Certainly regulating caloric intake has more impact than exercise because it's "easier" to achieve a caloric deficit, but that doesn't mean running isn't great for weight loss all else being equal.

Furthermore, exercise is important for other health reasons. So maintaining the same caloric intake and adding running is much better than simply reducing your caloric intake by the same amount.

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#110

Post by hueving »

dajohnson89 wrote: post #49
hueving wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes hours of running to offset a couple of beers worth of calories. If you're eating unhealthy and drinking a lot, there is no amount of running to undo it.

A beer is, say, 150 calories. A mile of running burns about 100 calories. When I ran, cruising speed was 7 minutes per mile. So a light 6 mile (10k) run would be about 45 minutes, 600 calories, or 6 miles.

I wouldn't call 150 calories of beer heavy drinking. A pint of something like Guinness is a little over 200 calories.

"SAMHSA defines heavy drinking as drinking 5 or more drinks on the same occasion"

So you're right that heavy drinking of beer could be undone with running, but it's going to take a 10-11 mile run every day.

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