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Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

nytimes.com

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Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#71

Post by FrancoDiaz »

notacoward wrote: post #23
eutectic wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of compelling arguments against excessive running: 1) It is destructive to your joints and tendons. Injury rates are very high among runners. 2) It is stressful, resulting in chronically elevated cortisol levels. 3) It is time consuming and boring (of course this is subjective), and very inefficient at improving fitness.

Anything done excessively can be unhealthy, by definition, but there's only a grain of truth to what you're saying. To your point 1: done properly, running isn't particularly harmful to joints and tendons, and some studies even seem to show that running can be beneficial in that regard[1]. The rapid changes in direction that cause the most stress are less prevalent in running than just about any other sport, not even…

I've been running for years and enjoy running, but everything he said is pretty much true...well, the boring part for me is obviously not true.

#2 (elevated cortisol levels) is a huge problem that is rarely discussed though. I'm still trying to figure that one out.

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#72

Post by nopinsight »

gragas wrote: post #7

I hate how much the authors of this article imply causality. >There also, interestingly, was less activity among the runners in a part of the brain that tends to indicate lack of focus and mind wandering. Could it not be that people who have the willpower to run regularly also have the willpower to stay focused? >In essence, the runners seemed to have brains in which certain cognitive skills, including multitasking a…

There are several studies that show adult neurogenesis from aerobic exercise, particularly running, in rats and mice.

Example: Physical exercise increases adult hippocampal neurogenesis in male rats provided it is aerobic and sustained. https:/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26844666

A review article here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/5566493_Neurogenesi...

There is at least one study that allows us to infer that the same effects may occur in humans (quoted below).

Please let us know if there are more studies like this. It looks like a very practical approach to improve your cognition and prevent dementia with little risk.

From: http://www.dana.org/Publications/Brainwork/Details.aspx?id=4...

"Columbia neuroscientist Scott Small and colleagues appear to have found a way around this problem. First, they put mice that had been running voluntarily for two weeks into a magnetic resonance imager to map exercise-induced changes in cerebral blood volume, a measure of increased blood vessel formation in the dentate gyrus. Then, by sacrificing the animals and counting new neurons, they were able to correlate the neuronal proliferation they observed with changes in blood volume.

The researchers then conducted magnetic resonance tests on a small group of middle-aged people who had been exercising about an hour a day, four times a week, for three months. By charting exercise-induced changes in cerebral blood volume in the human hippocampal region and applying the same algorithms used in the mice, they were able to deduce that neurogenesis was also occurring in the humans. Changes in blood volume in the dentate gyrus, they concluded, provide a correlate of neurogenesis in humans."

Anecdotal, yet may not be completely coincidental: Alan Turing was an avid marathon runner. This is not part of the argument--so please don't take it into account when responding. ;)

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#73

Post by theparanoid »

paulddraper wrote: post #68
eutectic wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of compelling arguments against excessive running: 1) It is destructive to your joints and tendons. Injury rates are very high among runners. 2) It is stressful, resulting in chronically elevated cortisol levels. 3) It is time consuming and boring (of course this is subjective), and very inefficient at improving fitness.

#1 and #2 seem reasonable points, but > very inefficient at improving fitness Efficiency relative to what? Time? Joules? Cost? I'm skeptical running is "inefficient" at improving fitness.

Body weight exercises such as pull-ups, sit-ups, and push-ups are the best for fitness.

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#74

Post by bryanrasmussen »

gragas wrote: post #7

I hate how much the authors of this article imply causality. >There also, interestingly, was less activity among the runners in a part of the brain that tends to indicate lack of focus and mind wandering. Could it not be that people who have the willpower to run regularly also have the willpower to stay focused? >In essence, the runners seemed to have brains in which certain cognitive skills, including multitasking a…

I thought multitasking had been shown not to exist.

Since these people's minds don't wander I expect another study showing how Running is the Non-Creative's Sport.

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#75

Post by rdmsr »

paulddraper wrote: post #68
eutectic wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of compelling arguments against excessive running: 1) It is destructive to your joints and tendons. Injury rates are very high among runners. 2) It is stressful, resulting in chronically elevated cortisol levels. 3) It is time consuming and boring (of course this is subjective), and very inefficient at improving fitness.

#1 and #2 seem reasonable points, but > very inefficient at improving fitness Efficiency relative to what? Time? Joules? Cost? I'm skeptical running is "inefficient" at improving fitness.

Not sure what is meant by that commenter, but weight loss and strength gains are common goals which running isn't the most efficient at achieving. Obviously, it still impacts these and, obviously, those aren't goals for everyone.

Running is great at improving cardiovascular output (honestly not sure how it compares to biking and swimming), but that isn't all of fitness.

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#76

Post by tempestn »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #63
hueving wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biking, swimming, and rowing are all better on the joints than the impact from running. >P.S. Instead of getting your friends to downvote, how about suggesting an actually-healthy alternative? Don't complain about downvotes, it makes for boring conversation.

Rowing should only be done with a very good coach. Source: Girlfriend has two bulging discs in her back due to a bad coach of her freshman year rowing team.

I second this. I rowed semi-competitively for years in my teens and early twenties, and thought I had good form. I didn't learn until after herniating a disc that it's important to do most of the drive through the heels rather than the ball of the foot. Most people learn not to overreach at the catch, which is part of it, but you also have to focus on not just getting the heels down, but actually driving through them. (Much like squats, another thing I didn't learn to do properly (with weight on the heels) until after that injury.)

Of course there's a bunch else to it - keeping the back straight and strong, etc. - this was just the thing that happened to be missing from my training, so might be for others as well.

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#77

Post by CJefferson »

nabla9 wrote: post #53
eutectic wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of compelling arguments against excessive running: 1) It is destructive to your joints and tendons. Injury rates are very high among runners. 2) It is stressful, resulting in chronically elevated cortisol levels. 3) It is time consuming and boring (of course this is subjective), and very inefficient at improving fitness.

1) The idea that running is bad for your knees and joints is a popular fitness myth. According to several studies runners, even those who have run competitively for many years, do not have an increased prevalence of osteoarthritis. 2) Chronically elevated cortisol levels are result of overtraining. If you do that, you are doing it wrong. Overtraining happens when a person experiences stress and physical trauma from e…

The knees is still out. One problem with studying long term runners, I'd often people who get knee pain drop out.

That's me -- went to various physios, they all agree I've messed up my knees, and won't ever recover enough to take up running again.

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#78

Post by tempestn »

theparanoid wrote: post #73
paulddraper wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#1 and #2 seem reasonable points, but > very inefficient at improving fitness Efficiency relative to what? Time? Joules? Cost? I'm skeptical running is "inefficient" at improving fitness.

Body weight exercises such as pull-ups, sit-ups, and push-ups are the best for fitness.

Again, this depends on how you define both "best" and "fitness". What's best depends a lot on what someone enjoys. I would rather do an activity I enjoy for 40 minutes than get the same benefit doing something I hate for 20. Likewise, fitness means different things to different people and at different times. You may be focusing on cardio-vascular fitness, or on strength, or speed, or weight loss, or performance in a particular sport...

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#79

Post by tachim »

nopinsight wrote: post #72
gragas wrote: post #7

I hate how much the authors of this article imply causality. >There also, interestingly, was less activity among the runners in a part of the brain that tends to indicate lack of focus and mind wandering. Could it not be that people who have the willpower to run regularly also have the willpower to stay focused? >In essence, the runners seemed to have brains in which certain cognitive skills, including multitasking a…

There are several studies that show adult neurogenesis from aerobic exercise, particularly running, in rats and mice. Example: Physical exercise increases adult hippocampal neurogenesis in male rats provided it is aerobic and sustained. https:/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26844666 A review article here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/5566493_Neurogenesi... There is at least one study that allows us to infer…

That first study does not support your claim. This is the main chart: https://i.imgur.com/pTFJkaJ.png. Note how it shows a significant response in Doublecortin+ cells only in the HRT group and not for the LRTs. These acronyms stand "for low (LRT) and high (HRT) response to aerobic exercise training". In particular, quoting from the article:

Starting with a founder population of genetically heterogeneous rats (N/NIH stock), we applied two-way artificial selection based on the magnitude of change in running capacity after completing 8 weeks of standardized aerobic treadmill training. After 15 generations of selection, rats bred as HRT increased maximal treadmill running distance from 646 to 869 m (change, 223 ± 20 m), whereas rats bred as LRT decreased from 620 to 555 m (change, −65 ± 15 m) after completing the same absolute amount of training (Koch et al. 2013).

This is a huge confounding variable. There is a very good chance these cells have an impact on these rats' ability to run long distances after training, so it's completely reasonable to expect that the cell growth would respond well to the very exercise the rats were selected for responding well to! It does not show that the same effect would happen in a normal rat (the LRT rats did not see a difference in this particular cell growth, but they were also nonrandom).

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#80

Post by tempestn »

dajohnson89 wrote: post #49
hueving wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes hours of running to offset a couple of beers worth of calories. If you're eating unhealthy and drinking a lot, there is no amount of running to undo it.

A beer is, say, 150 calories. A mile of running burns about 100 calories. When I ran, cruising speed was 7 minutes per mile. So a light 6 mile (10k) run would be about 45 minutes, 600 calories, or 6 miles.

And that doesn't even take into account the increased metabolism after the run is finished, nor the increased resting burn rate (over time) due to increased muscle mass.
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