Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport • Hacker News Board

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#21

Post by theobold » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 2:36 AM UTC

eutectic wrote: post #11

gragas wrote: post #7

I hate how much the authors of this article imply causality. >There also, interestingly, was less activity among the runners in a part of the brain that tends to indicate lack of focus and mind wandering. Could it not be that people who have the willpower to run regularly also have the willpower to stay focused? >In essence, the runners seemed to have brains in which certain cognitive skills, including multitasking a…

There are plenty of compelling arguments against excessive running: 1) It is destructive to your joints and tendons. Injury rates are very high among runners. 2) It is stressful, resulting in chronically elevated cortisol levels. 3) It is time consuming and boring (of course this is subjective), and very inefficient at improving fitness.

What qualifies as "excessive", though? Excessive anything is harmful almost by definition.

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#22

Post by Benjamin_Dobell » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 2:42 AM UTC

trentmb wrote: post #9

cardamomo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel your pain. Two running moments that stand out to me: (1) when I first got into a regular running rhythm and noticed how much clearer my thinking felt after runs, and (2) when I injured my foot and was out of commission for a few weeks and noticed how irritable and fidgety I felt. Running is addictive!

Yeah. Went to a clinic because I couldn't put any weight on my left foot without collapsing. Referred to a podiatrist. "Peroneal tendonitis". Flat feet. My legs are like > Doesn't really matter though. I've already developed arthritis in my knees and ankles at the age of 27, any sort of impact exercise is verboten. Thanks for letting me vent.

I'm also 27. When I was about 11 my left knee collapsed and I was diagnosed with Osgood Schlatter syndrome - the "syndrome" part of the name makes it sound a genetic, I don't believe it strictly is - it's just when the tendon tears off your patella. Anyway, recovered from that with physio.

Later, teenage years, I was also diagnosed with flat feet, needed orthotics. I don't wear them now, I probably should though as my ankles do get sore. This also lead to back problems that I went to the physio for when I was 19.

When I was 17 I tore the ligament in my left ankle playing Rugby. That one hurt for ages whenever I ran or walked until last year where I tripped over in a car park and ended up on crutches because I'd torn it again. Think I might have torn it clear off, because it no longer burns when I run or walk. So that's a win!

I recently started playing basketball again and broke my Scaphoid (left wrist) only 4 games in. It's nearly finished healing... I hope.

I don't know how serious your arthritis is, but if it's manageable then you're almost certainly better off exercising than not - your body will only deteriorate more if you don't.

That's not to say I exercise anywhere near as much as I should (just walking the dogs at the moment), however, at least personally I don't use injuries as an excuse not to exercise, if I don't it's purely because I'm being lazy.

On the plus side, since I started to put on a bit of a gut my back pain has decreased because I've improved my posture by almost always tensing my core to suck in my belly ;)

New year's resolution, more exercise!

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#23

Post by notacoward » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 2:51 AM UTC

eutectic wrote: post #11

gragas wrote: post #7

I hate how much the authors of this article imply causality. >There also, interestingly, was less activity among the runners in a part of the brain that tends to indicate lack of focus and mind wandering. Could it not be that people who have the willpower to run regularly also have the willpower to stay focused? >In essence, the runners seemed to have brains in which certain cognitive skills, including multitasking a…

There are plenty of compelling arguments against excessive running: 1) It is destructive to your joints and tendons. Injury rates are very high among runners. 2) It is stressful, resulting in chronically elevated cortisol levels. 3) It is time consuming and boring (of course this is subjective), and very inefficient at improving fitness.

Anything done excessively can be unhealthy, by definition, but there's only a grain of truth to what you're saying.

To your point 1: done properly, running isn't particularly harmful to joints and tendons, and some studies even seem to show that running can be beneficial in that regard[1]. The rapid changes in direction that cause the most stress are less prevalent in running than just about any other sport, not even considering the impacts that can occur e.g. in contact sports. Injury rates are not particularly high in running compared to other sports, and even if that were so you should be careful about confusing correlation with causation. A lot of people get injured while running mostly because it's an incredibly popular form of exercise. Do you seriously think there would be fewer injuries e.g. among the same number of people playing rugby?

To your point 3: I know a lot of weight-training addicts like to make that claim, but it's just not true for any reasonable definition of fitness. Running isn't particularly good for weight loss, but weight loss has little to do with fitness. Ditto for weight gain, even in the form of muscle. When it comes to the kind of fitness that actually matters - i.e. developing one's heart and lungs to prevent the chronic problems that kill millions every year - only a few kinds of exercise are better than running. Swimming, rowing, and cross-country skiing come to mind. There are probably a few more, but lifting weights is certainly not on the list.

You personally don't like running? Fine. No exercise is ideal for everyone. But spreading FUD that discourages others from pursuing a healthy habit doesn't seem very constructive.

P.S. Instead of getting your friends to downvote, how about suggesting an actually-healthy alternative?

[1] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/12/161209100236.h...

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#24

Post by klodolph » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 2:51 AM UTC

theobold wrote: post #21

eutectic wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of compelling arguments against excessive running: 1) It is destructive to your joints and tendons. Injury rates are very high among runners. 2) It is stressful, resulting in chronically elevated cortisol levels. 3) It is time consuming and boring (of course this is subjective), and very inefficient at improving fitness.

What qualifies as "excessive", though? Excessive anything is harmful almost by definition.

This comment replies to the wording of the parent comment, not the content. We know what the parent comment means.

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#25

Post by rconti » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 2:53 AM UTC

cylinder wrote: post #5

Man, NYT seems to run a piece about exercise and health, especially mental health, and especially running, almost daily. We get it. Personally, I hate running. I like thinking.

I find I think more while I'm running.

Probably because running is so damn boring!

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#26

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 2:57 AM UTC

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #22

trentmb wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Went to a clinic because I couldn't put any weight on my left foot without collapsing. Referred to a podiatrist. "Peroneal tendonitis". Flat feet. My legs are like > Doesn't really matter though. I've already developed arthritis in my knees and ankles at the age of 27, any sort of impact exercise is verboten. Thanks for letting me vent.

I'm also 27. When I was about 11 my left knee collapsed and I was diagnosed with Osgood Schlatter syndrome - the "syndrome" part of the name makes it sound a genetic, I don't believe it strictly is - it's just when the tendon tears off your patella. Anyway, recovered from that with physio. Later, teenage years, I was also diagnosed with flat feet, needed orthotics. I don't wear them now, I probably should though as m…

[deleted]

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#27

Post by echelon » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 2:58 AM UTC

projektir wrote: post #16

AJ007 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a tendency, from what I've observed, to use running as a way to have a really bad diet and still stay thin. There is a lot of pressure for people in their 20s and 30s who live in urban areas to both look fit and drink heavily. Not a good recipe for long term health.

Running is not great for losing weight, so I'm having doubts about this one...

It's been pretty effective for me. What are better ways of losing weight?

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#28

Post by mhb » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 3:01 AM UTC

eutectic wrote: post #11

gragas wrote: post #7

I hate how much the authors of this article imply causality. >There also, interestingly, was less activity among the runners in a part of the brain that tends to indicate lack of focus and mind wandering. Could it not be that people who have the willpower to run regularly also have the willpower to stay focused? >In essence, the runners seemed to have brains in which certain cognitive skills, including multitasking a…

There are plenty of compelling arguments against excessive running: 1) It is destructive to your joints and tendons. Injury rates are very high among runners. 2) It is stressful, resulting in chronically elevated cortisol levels. 3) It is time consuming and boring (of course this is subjective), and very inefficient at improving fitness.

This data still isn’t perfect, but it adds another brick to the growing pile suggesting that running will not ruin your knees.[1]

New study explores how exercise may fight joint inflammation[2]

[1]http://www.runnersworld.com/sweat-science/run-for-your-knees

[2]http://www.runnersworld.com/sweat-science/is-running-actuall...

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#29

Post by fian » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 3:05 AM UTC

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #17

Intellectuals often take up cycling or running, notice the benefits and then claim cycling and running are great for the mind. Kind of makes me wonder if they'd ever exercised before. As long as I don't completely exhaust myself, I tend to feel much better after I exercise, which includes playing ball sports... I just don't do it nearly as often as I should!

Team sports require you to process a large stream of input information as a stream for a 1-2 hour window. In my experience (social league basketball, volleyball, soccer, mixed netball) I switch off subconscious (deep) thought processing and focus on handling the high volume of (shallow) inputs from reading other players movements, communicating audibly and feeling through touch/proprioception.

Cycling and running (or hiking), especially solo and on quiet roads or trails does the opposite. You can process a much smaller amount of input information required for navigation and hazard avoidance in "autopilot" mode. This frees your mind to process your subconscious thoughts in a daydream like (meditative?) way.

So to me, both activities are useful ways to modify my thought processes. Team sports let me switch off or de-prioritise my subconscious for a while. Cycling or running lets me work through a subconscious queue.

Re: Running as a Thinking Person’s Sport

#30

Post by notacoward » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 3:09 AM UTC

klodolph wrote: post #24

theobold wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What qualifies as "excessive", though? Excessive anything is harmful almost by definition.

This comment replies to the wording of the parent comment, not the content. We know what the parent comment means.

No, we don't. I'm not sure even the author has a clear definition of "excessive" in mind, so we might not know even if we were all telepathic. The validity or applicability of their complaints about running is very closely tied to that definition, so it's entirely reasonable to seek clarification.