Earlier quoted context omitted.
When he said "mind work", I took it as the constant, 24 hour stress I experienced while living there. Which sometimes is completely unrelated to work. The insane commutes, the work culture, the high rent / COL, the culture of trying to look as rich/smart/successful as possible, the sue happy people, the fact that there's absolutely nothing else to do other than work, etc really wore down on me. I lived in the south b…
Not everyone has the same experiences with the Bay Area - I live in the Valley and my commute is better than when I lived in DC (where even going For me, it's mostly been great.
Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?
241–250 of 524 posts
Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?
#242Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you are going to transfer somewhere at the same pay rate, transfer somewhere cheaper and nicer than Seattle. Lots of options (I'm partial to northern New England, personally, as I like having proper winter).
Funny, when I saw "nicer", I sure as hell didn't expect it to be followed by "New England". Fortunately, there's a region for everyone, but man, as someone who moved out of Seattle for better weather, New England would be a huuuge downgrade.
Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've carefully cultivated non-tech friends in SF/South/East Bay, to the point where I actually need to meet more tech people now since I have no idea what work life is like at other companies. It's been worthwhile and we do plenty of stuff, but you have to be prepared to drive very long distances to see anyone. And many people who don't get into tech move away, so practically everyone is younger than me (and male) an…
> DC I'm assuming you've never paid us a visit :( DC literally has the second largest mass transit system in the country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_rapid_tr...
I've only ridden the Metro once, yeah.
Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?
#244The author lost me right there, even though I did make an honest effort to read the article to the end.
(1) There are plenty of "brain centers" in the world. The fact that they don't tout it day and night makes them no worse than the Bay Area. In fact, as an European, I am more likely to move to Gothenburg, Oslo or even Reykjavik than the Bay Area -- on this basis alone. Most of us Europeans strongly dislike touting. In fact it says a lot to me and many others how the Bay Area gets the most press coverage of being the "tech innovation center of the world". Center of what? The 99% of failed startups that want to disrupt markets that didn't exist yesterday? Center of "work 16 hours a day for the measly promise of 1% equity if we ever take off"?
(2) "Amazing place and era to live in" is a good inspirational motto... and it only works until you get your first burnout and wish to just make good money and be at peace, and have time for your other hobbies, significant other or whatever else. I feel sorry for all the tryhard after-teens who are about to find that out the hard way.
(3) Company valuations in billions rarely mean anything. I am too lazy to dig around but I clearly remember there were cases of several companies being valued close to 1 billion, only to be sold for ~30 millions several months later. This is hype, it's produced by the investors and VCs themselves, they profit from it, and it has almost zero real-world credibility. I might be oversimplifying this; but I am convinced I am not that far off.
(4) The historical flashbacks only make the author want to desperately justify how cool is it to live in the Bay Arean. No, sorry; I'd honestly prefer 14th century Venice compared to San Francisco. There were tangible things to see there, for example Michelangelo's art. What can SF show you? Zombified devs hurrying for their commute, hellbent on zombifying themselves even more in the name of a cause that's 99% likely to fail?
Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?
#245Headline follows Betteridge's Law.
Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It takes about 2 years to save up $100K on a typical Bay Area engineer's salary Have you actually done this? Know anyone who has? This seems completely implausible, outside of some extreme frugal lifestyle cases (I'm talking "eating garbage dumped by grocery stores" level frugal)...
I actually saved up $100K in about 18 months, working at a large Bay Area tech company and living in Mountain View. I don't feel I made significant compromises to do so, either: I had roommates for 6 of those 18 months but lived in a 1BR afterwards, I had friends (many of whom I still keep up with), I owned a car and got out on weekends. I did cook the majority of my (non-employer-provided) meals at home, and my frie…
[1] Googling "average software engineer salary california" shows figures ranging from 107k to 135k, 120k seems to be more or less the median of Google's figures.
Edit: added footnote
Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?
#247As someone who grew up in the Bay Area, but moved to Portland about three years ago, I can tell you there is a stark difference in ecosystems. However, if you are a young up-and-coming programmer coming out of school, it makes complete sense to move to the Bay Area. If you're an Actor you move to L.A. to get your big break. If you're a programmer, you go to the Bay Area to work for a big firm that will help build you…
>go to Bay Area to a big firm to build your reputation Doesn't make sense. The big 4 have campuses across the country. Instead of telling people to move to SV I would recommend making sure to get into the right (big 4 or not) team and role for your career. Just fixing bugs at big SV company will not help much. You want to make sure you have a chance to contribute something to show your skills on an innovative or lead…
Yes, but a disproportionate number of their positions are in the bay area. Also, it's much easier to job hop between high-paying companies in the bay area, and this is particularly true if you have a specialization more specific/less common than "web dev" or "iOS dev".
Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?
#248As a college dropout, I have nowhere to go but the Bay Area, where many startups don't care much about credentials. Everywhere else does.
Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
I had almost the exact same situation, except I'm up in MN. Top notch schools and no crime, 4200sqft home, etc etc. The salaries in SV are way too low to ever consider a move.
Not disputing your conclusions, but I wonder what the hell people do with 4200sqft houses. I grew up in a very normal 5 bedroom multi-level house, 4 person family. It was 2400sqft. So were everyone else's houses. My house in the valley is about half that size, for 2 of us. Given infinite money, sure I'd like a bigger house. 2k, maybe 2500. I just cannot fathom why anybody would even WANT 4k+. I hear of people living…
tools & supplies for a variety of hobbies that involve the physical world. guest bedroom(s) for visitors. a decent kitchen so two can do real cooking at the same time. book cases. a laundry room that doesn't involve limboing under ducting.
Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
> you need to be able to have coffee with a VC If you are building a company that needs VC funding. Most companies don't. "Venture Capital is the wrong source of capital for the vast majority of entrepreneurial ventures" http://avc.com/2005/03/dont_take_the_m/ If you aren't looking to raise VC but instead want to be part of a vibrant tech ecosystem, well, that opens up more mid tier cities. For starters: San Diego, L…
Adding one: if you're doing anything security related, DC's your friend.
And if you are into oil/gas, Houston. Marijuana, Colorado or Washington. Cars, Detroit (maybe?). Commodities, Chicago. Ag, Kansas City (maybe?). Outdoor experiences, SLC. Building something for Latin America, Miami. Ets, etc.
I imagine there are many other cities that dominate in niches that I'm missing.