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Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

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Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#201

Post by kLeeIsDead »

chrisper wrote: post #187
kLeeIsDead wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When he said "mind work", I took it as the constant, 24 hour stress I experienced while living there. Which sometimes is completely unrelated to work. The insane commutes, the work culture, the high rent / COL, the culture of trying to look as rich/smart/successful as possible, the sue happy people, the fact that there's absolutely nothing else to do other than work, etc really wore down on me. I lived in the south b…

Yeah, same. I live in San Jose and feel 100% like you. I haven't even worked yet and only went to school here and I am already exhausted. This is why I chose not to live here after graduation.

The crazy part about it is it's just going to get worse and worse. I was born and raised in SJ... since the 80s this tech stuff has been slowly building on top of itself like some sort of tumor, and the city does absolutely nothing to stop the gentrification and overall shittyness of the money-money-money mindset from taking over. I'm 23 now, most of my friends and 100% of my parents friends (lived there since the 60s) have moved out because of the constant influx of migrant workaholics.

It's given me a very cynical view on life. I really don't know where else to move, I feel like I need to leave the country as well, or at least leave California. Where are you going, if you don't mind me asking?

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#202

Post by willholloway »

danwalmsley wrote: post #159

I did the math on this about 1.5 years ago and came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth it. I was, at the time, in a CTO-level position at a VC-funded startup and so had plenty of opportunities in the Bay, but in the end opted to live in a quiet country town about 2.5 hrs drive away and work from home in a lower-key role. I have a 3yo kid and another on the way, and I do not regret my decision for one second, part…

He that hath wife and children hath given hostages to fortune; for thay are impediments to great enterprises, either of virtue or mischief.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#203

Post by platita »

Doing some goal factoring and trying to really understand what reasons would keep you in Bay Area is a good excercise. I'm guilty of noticing being stuck in this artificial prison quite late myself. :) https://medium.com/teleport-stories/another-kind-of-silicon-...

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#204

Post by alex- »

I moved (internationally) to the bay area. In my specific circumstances I would not say that it was financially clearly a good thing to do, due to the MUCH higher costs of living.

However as a place to live it is quite nice. Technology is everywhere. You can go to a free meet up and literally see the creator of the language doing a talk (e.g. Guido tomorrow with the baypiggies). It has A LOT of opportunities to pursue the career that interests you. It's warm, close to the coast and a manageable drive to skiing in Tahoe.

Some times it is not all about the profit loss.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#205

Post by strictnein »

rconti wrote: post #155
strictnein wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had almost the exact same situation, except I'm up in MN. Top notch schools and no crime, 4200sqft home, etc etc. The salaries in SV are way too low to ever consider a move.

Not disputing your conclusions, but I wonder what the hell people do with 4200sqft houses. I grew up in a very normal 5 bedroom multi-level house, 4 person family. It was 2400sqft. So were everyone else's houses. My house in the valley is about half that size, for 2 of us. Given infinite money, sure I'd like a bigger house. 2k, maybe 2500. I just cannot fathom why anybody would even WANT 4k+. I hear of people living…

I get what you're saying, we were in a 1800sqft home before this and a 780sqft home before that. After the first month or so in a space this size, it doesn't feel that big. You just get kind of used to it, although you kind of appreciate the space. The only time we notice the size of it is when we get back from a vacation. Also, once you have kids, homes feel much smaller. Before kids, we lived in a 600sqft rental duplex and a 800sqft loft and they both felt like more than enough room.

As for energy costs, in MN homes are very well insulated, you frequently have a fair amount of trees providing shade, and you have a basement that's 30-40% of your sqft, so heating and cooling costs aren't quite as dramatic, even when it's -20F like it will be this weekend.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#206

Post by nkassis »

Apocryphon wrote: post #172
nkassis wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nashua has a lot of tech companies if you would be ok with a smaller urban area close enough to Boston to enjoy the city too. Personally I just moved from Seattle to Boston. I'm conflicted on the two places. I really liked the outdoors areas in Seattle, commute was shorter and rent was also cheaper. But Boston has a lot of cool things too, food better, more interesting activities todo (other than outdoors but you can…

Isn't Montreal marginally a tech city?

The problem is salary for tech workers in Montreal are way lower than other NE cities. 5 hour south and you make 2-3 times the salary you could make in Montreal (from personal experience) but cost of living does match that increase. You are better off net in the US. I know a few people that spent time working in the US and returned to Montreal with a good amount of savings which lets them live very comfortably.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#207

Post by dingdongding »

nkassis wrote: post #120
plandis wrote: post #72

This doesn't factor in stock compensation AFAIK. For instance, I started at Amazon at around $90k in salary plus signing bonus of $20k so like $110,000 my first year out of college back in 2013. I made about the same in 2014. In 2015 I got promoted to SDE2 and my salary is closer to $118,000. But additionally I also got like $60k in 2015 in stock and this year my stock compensation is just about $100,000. I'd imagine…

But there has also been an incredible growth in amazon stock value during that time. This isn't going to be typical of someone starting to work for Amazon today (or another tech company) as your stock grant was most likely calculated at a much lower stock price then it is now while theirs would be calculated on today prices and we don't know how the future will go. Experience definitively varies.

You're underestimating Amazon. I still think it can achieve same returns if not more in next 4 years like last 4 years

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#208

Post by dingdongding »

gregatragenet3 wrote: post #163

Go to the bay area, spend a few years becoming ridiculously skilled and invaluable to your organization. Then tell employer you'll be moving to X and telecommuting. X being somewhere with a lower cost of living, and someplace you love (nice beaches, near family, etc).

Sean. Is that you?

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#209

Post by wolfgke »

samuraig wrote: post #164
wolfgke wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Investors diversify their portfolios by investing in a number of startups and also in more reliable investments like well-established companies. You can't treat a job that way - there's no way to diversify the hours of day into several different companies with different risk levels. It is definitively possible to diversify: Just do an agreement with other programmers to put all (or, say, 50%) your incomes into a co…

That would totally NOT end up in court when one of the programmers hits the Startup Lottery and everybody wants a piece of their stock options.

The parent wanted to diversify. Diversifying means that one gets a smaller part of the winning ticket - not nothing, but also not the complete piece (just as the investor only gets some smaller part of the profit than if he invested all the money in the winning company). If this is not what one wants, one should not claim that one wants to "diversify the job among many opportunities", but instead honestly say that one is simply jealous of the success of other people that got the better ticket.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#210

Post by nostrebored »

uiri wrote: post #185

The salaries here do cover the higher cost of living, and if you are able to capitalize on the additional opportunities that are uniquely available here, you could end up doing much more than covering costs. This conclusion is patently false. The article mentioned but failed to calculate California state income tax. That $15k-33k salary differential is going to be eaten by at least $12k in California income taxes. Th…

It's like the author didn't even crunch the numbers. The same for stating that the facebook salary from the bay area is higher;

249 * .133 + 18 = 51.2, suggesting that a Microsoft engineer makes more in take home pay than a comparable Facebook engineer at Level 3.

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