Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Please Jobhop as much as Possible

angryasian.posterous.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 89 posts

Re: Please Jobhop as much as Possible

#11

Post by mseebach »

driekken wrote: post #2

The whole concept of loyalty towards a corporation is off. You can have loyalty to family, to friends, to a country but never to an economic entity whose only purpose (on paper) is profit. I think that professionalism and well-defined internal rules should be the only things expected by employers.

You are loyal to family, friends and country if said entities are worthy of it - i.e. if they reciprocate it. I can think of plenty of reasons why someone would choose not to be loyal to family. Someone I know is gay, his father never accepted, or even respected that, during an entire lifetime, and the guy didn't even show up to his funeral.

If a company shows genuine respect, compassion and, indeed, loyalty to an employee, there's no reason they couldn't be shown the same in return - even if it's ultimately for the profit of the company (if said values are expressed, the profit of the company should also positively reflect on the profit of the employee).

Re: Please Jobhop as much as Possible

#12

Post by motters »

driekken wrote: post #2

The whole concept of loyalty towards a corporation is off. You can have loyalty to family, to friends, to a country but never to an economic entity whose only purpose (on paper) is profit. I think that professionalism and well-defined internal rules should be the only things expected by employers.

I agree. I would not encourage people to be automatically loyal to any company which they might happen to work for, unless that company has shown loyalty to the individual in return. If the only consideration is profit, then just think of working for a company purely as a business transaction and nothing more than that. Loyalty need not be part of the equation.

Re: Please Jobhop as much as Possible

#13

Post by gldalmaso »

driekken wrote: post #2

The whole concept of loyalty towards a corporation is off. You can have loyalty to family, to friends, to a country but never to an economic entity whose only purpose (on paper) is profit. I think that professionalism and well-defined internal rules should be the only things expected by employers.

I totally agree. To ask an employee for loyalty is nothing but moral cohertion. Employess should be comitted, yes, to their work, to the quality of their work, to having good relations with team and colleagues.

Where do employers get the idea that a job contract is a soul contract? Unless you are offering significant profit sharing, why expect to be normal that people simply sacrifice themselves for the sake of your company? And seduce you into believing it's nothing more than your moral obligation?!? It's a moral harassment policy!

Want people to work overtime and not complain? Pay them fairly for that! Want people to stick with your company and not leave? Provide a good workplace and a deserving salary!

The only ones that should have unconditional loyalty to a company are the company owners!

Besides, wake up and realize that there is no longer such a thing as a carrier in a single company. At least where I live, you shouldn't expect and IT employee to stick around longer than 4 years, and most leave within 1-2 years.

Stop thinking you hire loyalty.

And employess, realize that your company won't be any more loyal to you when things get rough and they need to make cuts. In fact, when that time comes, they usually go for the fat paychecks of those that stuck around.

Re: Please Jobhop as much as Possible

#14

Post by davidw »

DrJokepu wrote: post #7
exit wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what makes it possible to be loyal to a country? a country is just a bureaucratic + economic entity you randomly get assigned to.

Many people (including me) see their country as a collective of shared history, culture and tradition they can associate themselves with. If you see your country as a 'bureaucratic + economic entity' then probably you've never lived in a foreign country. Believe me, that would completely change your perspective.

I live in a foreign country that I chose to go live in. I don't really feel any great "loyalty" to the one I'm in or the one I was born in. There are good and bad things about both.

Oh, and my current country of residence, Italy, is a very bureaucratic entity;-)

Re: Please Jobhop as much as Possible

#15

Post by Mc_Big_G »

I recently had a conversation with my 16 year old son who was having girl problems. Part of my advice was about playing the field. i.e. "What are the chances the best woman for you, in all the world, lives 1/4 mile away?" Similarly, what are the chances the best job for you is your first, or second, or third? Slim.

Playing the field with employers should be the standard mode of operation. This possibly benefits employers even more than employees. What is worse for an employer than an entrenched employee, who hates his job, doing the bare minimum to stay employed? Surely the answer isn't the guy who was super productive for a year and then moved on.

Re: Please Jobhop as much as Possible

#16

Post by ctd »

Jobhop yes, but please be careful--you might just hop yourself right out of the market.

My resume resembles Swiss cheese. I have a whole bunch of short-term jobs, and holes where I've taken off a year or more to pursue my own ideas (I'm "freelancing" during that time).

Fortunately I was able to get another job after the last break, but I didn't seem to be getting as many callbacks as I'm used to. This, coupled with my age, tells me I need to stay put for a while. And I hate that.

Re: Please Jobhop as much as Possible

#17

Post by rit »

I'm sorry - It was TOTALLY my fault that I started my career during the Dot Com days and worked through two bubbles. My fault that I worked for people who couldn't keep their companies above water despite working 70 hour weeks for them. I'm glad to know that it will prevent me from working for someone like Mr. Calacanis because of his narrow world view.

Re: Please Jobhop as much as Possible

#18

Post by Kilimanjaro »

Mc_Big_G wrote: post #15

I recently had a conversation with my 16 year old son who was having girl problems. Part of my advice was about playing the field. i.e. "What are the chances the best woman for you, in all the world, lives 1/4 mile away?" Similarly, what are the chances the best job for you is your first, or second, or third? Slim. Playing the field with employers should be the standard mode of operation. This possibly benefits emplo…

"Surely the answer isn't the guy who was super productive for a year and then moved on."

I've been that guy for my whole life, and not a single employee has tried to convince me to stay with better perks, none.

A couple of times I stayed and got not even enough to compensate for inflation, so fuck em, I moved on.

If you want better perks, every year you have to move on.

ps. But you have to be good, and I mean real good to play the diva card.

Re: Please Jobhop as much as Possible

#19

Post by jrockway »

ctd wrote: post #16

Jobhop yes, but please be careful--you might just hop yourself right out of the market. My resume resembles Swiss cheese. I have a whole bunch of short-term jobs, and holes where I've taken off a year or more to pursue my own ideas (I'm "freelancing" during that time). Fortunately I was able to get another job after the last break, but I didn't seem to be getting as many callbacks as I'm used to. This, coupled with m…

I doubt it. We are desperate for anyone who can answer our interview questions correctly. We would not care at all where you have worked, how much time you have taken for yourself, etc. Just know something about programming.

Re: Please Jobhop as much as Possible

#20

Post by shawndumas »

Don't leave a job until you are sure that they are the problem and not you.

When I was younger I used to think that my boss just didn't get 'it' -- whatever 'it' was. As I hung in there I started to see that I had been sold a bill of goods in school.

You get paid for the job you do, not for the job you think you do.

When you are sure you are doing what you thought you were and still are not getting commensurate pay; that's when you leave.

Post reply on HN