Earlier quoted context omitted.
How would a renter effectively downsize if the entire market is increasing? Is this the typical reaction from those who can afford it?
2bdrm to 1brm, 1bdrm to studio, studio to van.
van to nap-pod
Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?
121–130 of 524 posts
Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?
#122DC/NoVa is hurting for programmers. Particularly if you can get a clearance, there's no shortage of work out here, at a (somewhat) cheaper cost of living.
Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?
#123Interesting that Bay Area hackers make more than local hackers when they relocate outside the Bay Area. FTA: A 2015 report by Hired found that when engineers from the Bay Area relocate to other areas, they out-earn engineers on the local market. Experience in the Bay Area seems to advance careers. Engineers moving from San Francisco to Seattle make an average of $9,000 more than others who get offers in Seattle. This…
This could also be an artifact of the metric. I call this the "Geico" fallacy. Geico advertises that "People who switch to Geico save 15% or more". Notice that people who would lose money by switching to Geico should rarely switch. Accordingly, this metric will usually be positive. Consider that people moving to a new city for a job may need more incentive to move.
I've always found those advertisements weird. If consumers are rational and have good information, then the average savings from switching is the same as "how much do you have to pay someone to switch to Geico?". The higher it is, the worse you should expect service to be!
Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you move to CA, you need to pay state tax on your entire earnings, not just your raise. 13.3% of 140k is more than 18k, which is certainly significant.
Wait -- is the assertion here that California state tax rates aren't marginal? Because I don't think that's true.
The difference is that WA doesn't have state income tax.
Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
It takes about 2 years to save up $100K on a typical Bay Area engineer's salary, if you're fiscally prudent. Figure that $150K/year after taxes is about $110K/year, and live on $60K/year. That's eminently doable even in the Bay Area. The problem is that $100K is a very low estimate for a down payment in the Bay Area these days. Most people I know are getting parental help to put down $500K down, because with housing…
Sorry, I live here. I have an average salary for my experience. I can barely save $20k/yr. My rent+util is about $2000/month. I live in a very /cheap/ 1-bedroom with creaky carpet floors, no insulation, and near train tracks that's far outside SF. (Belmont) Altogether I spend close to $4000/month if I don't do anything special. /Everything/ is more expensive in this region. Food is expensive for no apparent reason ot…
It's cheaper to live in a larger place with roommates. You pay a premium for single bedroom and living by yourself. I lived in a warehouse with 5 other people for a while to save money.
Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?
#126Interesting that Bay Area hackers make more than local hackers when they relocate outside the Bay Area. FTA: A 2015 report by Hired found that when engineers from the Bay Area relocate to other areas, they out-earn engineers on the local market. Experience in the Bay Area seems to advance careers. Engineers moving from San Francisco to Seattle make an average of $9,000 more than others who get offers in Seattle. This…
This could also be an artifact of the metric. I call this the "Geico" fallacy. Geico advertises that "People who switch to Geico save 15% or more". Notice that people who would lose money by switching to Geico should rarely switch. Accordingly, this metric will usually be positive. Consider that people moving to a new city for a job may need more incentive to move.
This is really insightful. Does this fallacy have an well known name?
Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?
#127So a recruiting agency who makes money from placing applicants in the Bay area, a place with a shortage of developers, writes an article to convince more developers to move to the Bay area ? Yeah, totally trust their data and the data they selected for this article!
So, do you actually see something wrong with/missing from their data?
Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
Same, but I bought a house. Just outside of LA there are cities with some of the best public schools in the state (and some the country), and you don't have to pay $1.5 million+ for a house in the district.
Which cities?
Woodland Hills, West Hills, Calabasas, South Pasadena, Granada Hills, Simi Valley, Burbank and Glendale.
Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't have to live in San Francisco. There are plenty of nearby cities with cheaper rent.
...like Sacramento.~
Even San Mateo, which is not very far away, costs a lot less. And if you work in SF and commute from the East Bay via BART, which isn't too bad, you can save even more.
Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
EDIT I incorrectly multiplied the tax rate to the salary difference, and said that this was a 5$ difference. This is totally wrong (as multiple people point out below). I'll leave my original embarrassing comment as a cation to not write stupid things :) == I just added in a mention of the tax difference. But the numbers are 13.3% in CA vs 0% in WA. That's significant, for sure. But 13% tax on $33k is about $5k. I do…
Thanks for adding the note on the tax difference! That doesn't address my point though. If the salary difference of $33k is the difference between gross salary, that $33k is going to be taxed at the marginal tax rate. My guess at a marginal tax rate would be ~40%. Accordingly, that $33k becomes closer to $20k after tax. Edit: to clarify, consider a Seattle salary of $100k and a Bay Area salary of $133k. The take-home…
Washington state has no state income tax, which in California is a little under 10%: https://www.tax-brackets.org/californiataxtable
Works out to $9k according to this for a single filer: https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator#8TRRj... -- so your additional income is more like $11k, or just under $1k / mo. In my experience, the difference in housing is far more than $1k/mo, so you come out ahead in Seattle.
EDIT: Looks like I forgot about California's other taxes on payroll, so it's actually even more in Seattle's favor.