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Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

blog.triplebyte.com

31–40 of 524 posts

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#31
I do not understand the obsession the software industry has for locality. Wouldn't it make sense for people to work anywhere? Haven't Bay Area companies heard of something called the Internet?

If you have to have people in the office to make sure they're working, you already have a fundamental hiring problem.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#32
It looks like the salary differential of $33k listed in the article is gross earnings. After taxes this would just barely cover the rent differential of $1.5k/mo ($18k/year). Note that this is the best case scenario according to their estimates.

What troubles me is the use of median rent to compare housing costs. As rent increases, renters are likely to downsize offsetting some of the rent increase. I'd be willing to bet Seattle renters are able to get more space for the area's median rental. Accordingly, the salary increase probably doesn't cover the rent increase for a similar sized home.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#33

I ended up in Los Angeles because, despite being an expensive city, rents were cheaper than the Bay Area, and the salaries being offered were equivalent. I have a great place in LA that would easily be 50% to double the price in the Bay. This wasn't the only reason but it was one of the biggest. Another reason being that I wanted to work in tech as it relates to media and content, and there were many more options to…

Total compensation or base salary? LA base salaries are similar to the Bay Area, but very very behind when including stock (RSU/options) and bonuses.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#34
post #2

When people compare salaries / the cost of living in different cities, they often fail to account for the fact that many people don't spend their entire salary in the local economy. If you are trying to save money (or pay for college, donate to a cause, or buy a Ferrari) this costs the same no matter where you live. You should only apply the cost of living adjustment to housing (and maybe food). When you do this, liv…

Yes, this is absolutely true. Your car, clothing, computers and gadgets, and most of your groceries will be a lower percentage of your discretionary income in the Bay Area than in most other places. Your housing and gasoline will cost more, and maybe your car insurance. However, the caveat is that housing is so expensive here that it's difficult to save up for a down payment on any kind of housing on a single enginee…

It takes about 2 years to save up $100K on a typical Bay Area engineer's salary, if you're fiscally prudent. Figure that $150K/year after taxes is about $110K/year, and live on $60K/year. That's eminently doable even in the Bay Area.

The problem is that $100K is a very low estimate for a down payment in the Bay Area these days. Most people I know are getting parental help to put down $500K down, because with housing prices running around $1.2M, that's what's necessary to get under the $700K jumbo mortgage threshold.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#35

I do not understand the obsession the software industry has for locality. Wouldn't it make sense for people to work anywhere? Haven't Bay Area companies heard of something called the Internet? If you have to have people in the office to make sure they're working, you already have a fundamental hiring problem.

> I do not understand the obsession the software industry has for locality.

For many types of problems, collaborating in person works far better than collaborating online. Lower friction, easier to have a conversation, easier to sit around a computer and experiment, and generally easier to handle things in a few minutes that would take longer otherwise.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#36

> At Triplebyte, we help engineers around the country (and world) get jobs at top Bay Area companies I admit that I stopped reading at this point. Maybe I read that wrong and they meant "in addition to other areas", but from the way it's written it sounds like a conflict of interest. It's going to be difficult to make an objective assessment of the pros and cons of living in the Bay Area if your business depends on p…

This post appears to be the result of a recent Triplebyte hire for a writing position: https://medium.com/@ammon_b/become-a-writer-at-triplebyte-9f...

> Examples of topics we would like to cover include the salary differences between the SF Bay Area and other locations (does it make sense for engineers to move to SF?), the prevalence of remote work (is it harder or easier to get a remote job?), gender/age bias in hiring (How common is it?), and how credentials impact hiring decisions. We have insightful data on all these topics.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#37

> At Triplebyte, we help engineers around the country (and world) get jobs at top Bay Area companies I admit that I stopped reading at this point. Maybe I read that wrong and they meant "in addition to other areas", but from the way it's written it sounds like a conflict of interest. It's going to be difficult to make an objective assessment of the pros and cons of living in the Bay Area if your business depends on p…

Reading the article, they analyze data they show on charts. You could make the same conclusions they're drawing by also looking at the charts. Sure it's a shameless plug, but it definitely doesn't discredit their analysis.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#38

I do not understand the obsession the software industry has for locality. Wouldn't it make sense for people to work anywhere? Haven't Bay Area companies heard of something called the Internet? If you have to have people in the office to make sure they're working, you already have a fundamental hiring problem.

I think it's the fear of eventual outsourcing that drives some of the 'remote workers need not apply'.

People think if they can keep jobs in the office then they can keep themselves in a job.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#39
post #12
post #2

When people compare salaries / the cost of living in different cities, they often fail to account for the fact that many people don't spend their entire salary in the local economy. If you are trying to save money (or pay for college, donate to a cause, or buy a Ferrari) this costs the same no matter where you live. You should only apply the cost of living adjustment to housing (and maybe food). When you do this, liv…

We lived in the Bay Area for 3 years. Prior to that, I agreed with you. Living there changed my mind. More of our salary went to the local economy than I expected. We have a bunch of kids, which amplified the effect, but I am astonished at how much money it took to not feel like we were struggling to stay above water. Babysitting, gas, food, clothing, activities were all extremely expensive. Even insurance was high.…

There's a stage-of-life effect. Bay Area is great for young people, where cost of living is a much lower proportion of income. All the excess goes straight into savings or discretionary consumer goods, where a Bay Area dollar is worth just as much as a Rust Belt dollar. It's much less great for a family, where you have additional food, housing, childcare, and health costs that rise along with cost of living.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#40
For the following reason:

1. Bay area is extremely tolerant of immigrants and of different people. 2. Bay area is an excellent place for raising kids. The opportunities for your kids to learn are simply endless. There are excellent colleges near by and some of USA's best high schools. 3. Your experience as a programmer in bay area will always be valued more than your experience in Denver other things being same. 4. Job hopping is easier, finding another job when fired is even easier. 5. Skewed gender ratio means women might get more attention. 6. Networking opportunities are unparalleled in the world.

Disadvantages: 1. If you don't like racial, ethnic diversity then you might be uncomfortable in bay area. 2. If you are a single male finding a girl would be harder in bay area. 3. Competition is cut throat and sometimes it is stressful. 4. Job security is less as there are more people out there who can replace you. 5. California's tax policies and other government policies are very tyrannical and sometimes pure nonsensical. The Liberal state is far too liberal with your money. 6. Housing is bad. 7. Everything is expensive.

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