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Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

kakoune.org

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Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#131

Post by CJefferson »

ncd wrote: post #10

This looks awesome (although I think the name could use a little work). It also brings up a question I have for HN: Every few years, I make an attempt to learn to use one of the classic editors like vim or emacs, and inevitably give up after the enormous productivity drop I suffer when writing code. I just can't seem to pick up the muscle memory required to become fast with these tools, and the overwhelming array of…

No, in my opinion.

The problem is the people who reply will be the people for whom vim and Emacs "clicked".

I'm like you, and when I looked at my vim using friends, they really aren't any more efficient. Also, while your editor will "work forever", expect interesting plugins (like C++ integration via clang) to be less stable than say atom or visual studio, and to have to nice plugins every few years.

Also, they don't fit well on a modern desktop. I use lots of apos, each best for their use, that all use the same shortcut keys. That's integration that I like.

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#132

Post by jibsen »

ncd wrote: post #10

This looks awesome (although I think the name could use a little work). It also brings up a question I have for HN: Every few years, I make an attempt to learn to use one of the classic editors like vim or emacs, and inevitably give up after the enormous productivity drop I suffer when writing code. I just can't seem to pick up the muscle memory required to become fast with these tools, and the overwhelming array of…

I also seem to have an annual attempt at switching to Vim [1]. I can do enough basic commands to survive, but I am so far from the productivity in Sublime/Atom that I always end up going back to them.

[1]: https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=37747

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#133

Post by omtose »

kaoD wrote: post #110
omtose wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example the fact that the terminal does not make any difference between and . Or and .

You know what? I was ready for bullshit and you actually gave a compelling answer :P Yeah, that's a bummer, but there aren't that many instances of that drawback (it's bitten me a couple times maybe in many years?) and on the other hand text mode gives a lot of convenience like being able to use it from SSH and other niceties. Anyways, I don't think such behavior is inherent to "the console", only Linux's particular…

Yes it's in no way a dealbreaker, but it starts rearing its head when you want to use keys outside of the alphanumeric cluster.

I also absolutely agree that this is the correct way for an editor to be implemented.

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#134

Post by haldean »

DennisP wrote: post #98
masukomi wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last one is compelling, but the new "editing language" and paradigm that's been put together is _really_ compelling. Being able to see what a "sentence" is going to do as you're typing it is a huge improvement on vim. I _love_ vim, but executing complex commands is like shouting into a dark tunnel and hoping the person on the other end understands what you were trying to say.

That's why I tend to use visual mode. It sounds like Kakoune is basically visual mode by default, which is cool but not that different. This example was a bit silly: "dtf will delete to next f, if you then realize that was one f before the one you targeted, you need to undo, go back to your initial position, and try again with d2tf." There's no need to undo. Just follow up with a dot and you're done. Which pretty muc…

If you just replace 'd' with 'y', though, the example is a good one: hitting period would just yank the same thing again.

Edit: the yank example is actually way better, because you don't find out that you did something wrong until you go off and paste it somewhere else.

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#136

Post by DigitalJack »

It's pretty hard to find a link[0] to actually getting kakoune on the home page. Usually that sort of link at the bottom is an email URI and I try to avoid clicking on those.

Based on the linked screenshot[1], perhaps the editor should be named "Clippy's Revenge"

[0] https://github.com/mawww/kakoune

[1] http://kakoune.org/img/screenshots/screenshot-tmux.gif

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#137

Post by II2II »

ncd wrote: post #10

This looks awesome (although I think the name could use a little work). It also brings up a question I have for HN: Every few years, I make an attempt to learn to use one of the classic editors like vim or emacs, and inevitably give up after the enormous productivity drop I suffer when writing code. I just can't seem to pick up the muscle memory required to become fast with these tools, and the overwhelming array of…

I would say that it is worth it for one simple reason: vi and emacs are going to be around for a very long time. This has the advantage of letting you learn and build upon your skills as time progresses. Even though vi and emacs usually take much longer to learn and modern editors frequently offer many more features, you will probably end up being more productive with the old school editors simply because you aren't relearning existing skills every few years.

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#138

Post by twblalock »

throwaway991872 wrote: post #121
to3m wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not stop using the menus then? ;) Visual Studio can be operated pretty much entirely from the keyboard. The default shortcuts are fairly sensible, and you can always add more from the options. There is one major omission: changing build configuration or build target. (You can give the configuration manager a keyboard shortcut, and do it that way, but it's a bit unwieldy.) So I keep the relevant widget in the tool…

> Why not stop using the menus then? ;) Because you have to learn more commands/shortcuts than in Vim? ;)

When you are trying to learn a new thing, and you refuse to learn more than you already know, you are guaranteeing that you will be disappointed.

If you aren't willing to learn more than the Vim shortcuts, it's unfair to criticize Visual Studio or any other product. You are the problem.

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#139

Post by reitanqild »

throwaway991872 wrote: post #121
to3m wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not stop using the menus then? ;) Visual Studio can be operated pretty much entirely from the keyboard. The default shortcuts are fairly sensible, and you can always add more from the options. There is one major omission: changing build configuration or build target. (You can give the configuration manager a keyboard shortcut, and do it that way, but it's a bit unwieldy.) So I keep the relevant widget in the tool…

> Why not stop using the menus then? ;) Because you have to learn more commands/shortcuts than in Vim? ;)

Won't say anything bad about vim, I use it on a daily basis but normal IDEs aren't necessarily as bad as some people seem to want to portray them:

A few hints to get reasonably good, fast:

Use ctrl+arrowleft/arrowright to jump words at a time.

Use shift to select as you move.

This works together so ctrl + shift + arrowright means select to the next word boundary.

At keast in some IDEs this will also stop at word boundaries inside a variable or function name but this should be configurable. I prefer it this way though.

Next: in the menus you'll often see a hint that tells you a direct shortkey for that menu option. This holds true for both window menus on the top as well as in the right click context menu.

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#140

Post by oblio »

throwayawnotime wrote: post #74
optimuspaul wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that console apps are far less intuitive when it comes to visual thinkers. I also am not too keen on modal editing, it doesn't match how I do most things in life. I don't have to switch out my teeth when eating vs drinking. It just doesn't seem natural to me. I've always found I'm more productive with a GUI. Command line is great for simple tasks and executing commands, but editing files has always seemed less…

what is a visual thinker?

90% of the world and 15% of HackerNews.

Jokes aside, do you understand the architecture of a system better from a diagram than from a 2 page description?

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