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China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon

bloomberg.com

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Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon

#91

Post by gcb0 »

venomsnake wrote: post #67
billconan wrote: post #17

this is very much true. Outside censorship, the working culture of China is also quite different. It's quite common to do overtime in China. work-life balance is less respected. People accept it as the normal and are proud of it. My friend worked for an accounting company. In busy season, she had to work till 5a.m. in the morning of the next day and present her report to her supervisor at 8 a.m. she took her toothbru…

In the western game industry this is called slow week.

everyone forgets the usa has no labor laws or unions either. well there's a couple legacy unions that survived the smearing campaign over the decades trying to associate then with crime... but none in silicon valley, that's for sure.

Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon

#92

Post by jsjohnst »

raverbashing wrote: post #21
jsjohnst wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Korean's alphabet is simpler than both you listed imho, but that's just my take.

I disagree, because the Korean alphabet requires composition of glyphs Arabic has some marks and different start/middle/end forms but it is simpler

You are completely wrong on your first sentence. Hangul has fewer letters in the alphabet, fewer consonants, and virtually no different forms. It's also a phonetic language written as it's spoken more or less, unlike Arabic which leaves out vowels usually making it ambiguous far to often. Lets also not forget that there's many dialects of Arabic depending on region. Further, Arabic is often written in a script that makes it harder to read, especially from a distance, whereas Hangul is pretty unambiguous even with very small print.

(Reply biased a little based on my own experience reading both languages, but still should be pretty factually correct for most)

Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon

#93

Post by irrational »

jsjohnst wrote: post #9
raverbashing wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct The problem would be much smaller if they used a non-tonal language with a manageable alphabet or abjad (like Cyrillic or Arabic)

Korean's alphabet is simpler than both you listed imho, but that's just my take.

I don't know Korean, but Spanish is amazingly regular. Once you learn the 27 letters of the alphabet you can read anything. I'm not saying you can comprehend anything, but you can sound out all the words. It's not like English where you can't tell how to pronounce a word just by looking at it (for instance "though"). In Spanish you always know how to pronounce a word just by looking at it.

Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon

#95

Post by passiveincomelg »

billconan wrote: post #17

this is very much true. Outside censorship, the working culture of China is also quite different. It's quite common to do overtime in China. work-life balance is less respected. People accept it as the normal and are proud of it. My friend worked for an accounting company. In busy season, she had to work till 5a.m. in the morning of the next day and present her report to her supervisor at 8 a.m. she took her toothbru…

Sounds like the worst of both worlds: totalitarian government and hardcore capitalist exploitation at work. I hope every single developer leaves this hellhole.

Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon

#96

Post by gcb0 »

LAMike wrote: post #72

IP isn't enforced there, technology companies are comprimised from the start, "failure" isn't seen as a stepping stone to success, basic personal freedoms for its citizens don't exist. Hm, wonder why smart people with plenty of options wouldn't want to live under a totalitarian government like that.

no startups have actual enforceable patents in the usa too. it's not like they have a research department or a huge legal fund. they may get the occasional design or method patent that means nothing in the real world. so i don't thin the China ip thing means anything for startups, other than know you won't be the target of a troll right off the bat.

Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon

#97

Post by bbctol »

officialjunk wrote: post #62
laurent123456 wrote: post #22

The article doesn't mention that but another possible factor is that life is not that great over there either. If you are not Chinese, you'll always be a foreigner there, even if you spend ten years in the same city, so that makes it difficult to integrate. You'll also have to deal with the Chinese administration for the visa, residence permit, etc. which is quite a pain. It's definitely a great place to visit or eve…

A minority in the US could make that same exact argument...

Yes, and it would be a less strong argument. Being a recent immigrant in the United States is not easy, and feeling integrated into the new country is a challenge. Being a recent immigrant to China is incredibly hard, and feeling integrated is impossible. All arguments could be made on all sides of every issue; that doesn't say much about practical realities.

Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon

#98

Post by Hasknewbie »

The article is avoiding the elephant in the room: the lack of openness and information access is merely a consequence of having an illegitimate regime where everything is ruled by coercion, corruption, and political connections.

While you're there, if some company dumps chemicals in your backyard, somebody with a badge hounds you, or your employer refuses to pay you, good luck getting your day in court. They'd be doing this knowing they have rank and/or connections and you don't. There is no real rule of law in China. That makes it hard to be an attractive destination, regardless of how "hot" the local IT sector wants to look to the rest of the world.

Especially these days, where a quiet but massive purge is under way, and the regime's current propaganda is to push a heavily racialist/manifest-destiny style narrative, as a "welcomed immigrant" not having Youtube access would be the least of your worries.

Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon

#99

Post by Jtsummers »

duaneb wrote: post #83
louhike wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The american administration is bad too for foreigners, so I think it can be summarized by how attractive the country is.

You mean how the child of an immigrant is President?

US immigration goes beyond just the President's personal views and desires. The present situation is pretty difficult for many would-be immigrants, even those from middle class backgrounds in stable countries. If they lack a degree or their degree isn't recognized, they can't easily get a work visa (for permanent resident status, not temporary workers). They have to get married, go for the diversity visa program, or become a student (may be their second or third degree for some if they go this route).

Re: China won't be luring foreign tech talent any time soon

#100

Post by ar15saveslives »

blacktulip wrote: post #68

As a Chinese I would say that the points in this article, though true, are not among the driving reasons. If you ask me, I would present this list: 1. Practically, there are only 4-5 cities suitable for 'tech talents' in China. The properties prices in these cities are comparable to the ones in NY and SF while the salary isn't. BTW: you have very little chance to be able to get married without a property under your n…

> Primary/secondary education in China is very, very cruel

Could you elaborate? Based upon what I see here in Canada, chinese immigrants maniacally push their children to all functions that can be found around. And it's considered good when there're many chinese children in your kid's class.

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