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Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

kakoune.org

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Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#81

Post by JohnDotAwesome »

Cpoll wrote: post #77
kkotak wrote: post #73

One functionality I find missing in all modern code editors is - repeat action. This was present and extremely useful in, now extinct, Convergent Technology OS (CTOS) resident editor. In brief, it allowed users to repeat all the actions they performed on one-line of code, on another line of code. It's amazing how productive you can be when you have that feature. This goes beyond find & replace; It also helps format c…

This sounds like macros? Of course, the problem with macros is that you sometimes realize you should have hit "Record" only after you've completed the action.

> the problem with macros is that you sometimes realize you should have hit "Record" only after you've completed the action.

Happens to me all the time. But if using a macro was actually worth the effort in the first place, then it's probably still worth the effort to undo and record

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#82

Post by kps »

IshKebab wrote: post #38

Modal text editors are definitely not my thing, but anyway this looks like a huge improvement on vim. Still a shame that it is entirely console-based. It's 2016 people! We've had GUIs for literally decades.

  > We've had GUIs for literally decades.
Yes, lots of them. The one on my work desktop is different from the one on my home desktop, and they don't talk. Then there's the router, the NAS, the VPS, and so on that don't have screens, let alone GUIs.

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#83

Post by omtose »

kaoD wrote: post #67
omtose wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What would a GUI bring to this that isn't possible in the console? Not being destructive of user input, for starters.

Not sure I understand what you mean.

For example the fact that the terminal does not make any difference between and . Or and .

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#84

Post by buovjaga »

Cpoll wrote: post #77
kkotak wrote: post #73

One functionality I find missing in all modern code editors is - repeat action. This was present and extremely useful in, now extinct, Convergent Technology OS (CTOS) resident editor. In brief, it allowed users to repeat all the actions they performed on one-line of code, on another line of code. It's amazing how productive you can be when you have that feature. This goes beyond find & replace; It also helps format c…

This sounds like macros? Of course, the problem with macros is that you sometimes realize you should have hit "Record" only after you've completed the action.

I guess command history could be used in this case as the source for the recording.

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#85

Post by oftenwrong »

kkotak wrote: post #73

One functionality I find missing in all modern code editors is - repeat action. This was present and extremely useful in, now extinct, Convergent Technology OS (CTOS) resident editor. In brief, it allowed users to repeat all the actions they performed on one-line of code, on another line of code. It's amazing how productive you can be when you have that feature. This goes beyond find & replace; It also helps format c…

I use vi macros for that

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#86

Post by notheguyouthink »

ncd wrote: post #10

This looks awesome (although I think the name could use a little work). It also brings up a question I have for HN: Every few years, I make an attempt to learn to use one of the classic editors like vim or emacs, and inevitably give up after the enormous productivity drop I suffer when writing code. I just can't seem to pick up the muscle memory required to become fast with these tools, and the overwhelming array of…

I know you're seeing a ton of "yes it's worth it" posts, but i just wanted to add a slightly different perspective. Yes, it's worth it even when you aren't an expert at Vim.

I am constantly learning new Vim commands[1], and i feel i only know a tiny fraction of the vim editing language. Yet, i still love vim, and use it constantly, for everything.

The approach i take, as to make it enjoyable and not a job, is: "is what i am doing now annoying?". If you find yourself hitting j (to move down) 40 times in a row, or holding it to move down slowly, etc - Google for a solution[2]. It can be a little annoying in the beginning, but when you're starting out your far less likely to want to "fix" every bad pattern, and therefor you aren't spending all your time Googling. In my experience, you are only improving upon the things that most annoy you, and as time goes on, you improve quite a bit while not even trying.

[1]: discoverability is not it's strong suite, which is why i'm going to try Kakoune. [2]: You can multiply the command (40j), or / to jump. Among other things.

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#87

Post by falcolas »

optimuspaul wrote: post #63
falcolas wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would a GUI bring to this that isn't possible in the console? You can use a mouse to issue commands to console programs, after all: if you want to use your mouse to scroll through or select regions of text, you can.

I find that console apps are far less intuitive when it comes to visual thinkers. I also am not too keen on modal editing, it doesn't match how I do most things in life. I don't have to switch out my teeth when eating vs drinking. It just doesn't seem natural to me. I've always found I'm more productive with a GUI. Command line is great for simple tasks and executing commands, but editing files has always seemed less…

> I don't have to switch out my teeth when eating vs drinking.

But you do switch how your mouth is working when switching between eating and drinking. In one, you masticate and move food around your mouth before swallowing once (maybe twice), whereas the other involves directing fluids back to your throat which acts in a near-continuous swallowing action.

> You have to remember so many key combinations and commands

They become muscle memory after an admittedly non-trivial amount of use. Yes, it is an investment in your future usage of that tool.

And to be fair, you had to memorize C-x, C-c, and C-v at one point too.

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#88

Post by [deleted] »

ncd wrote: post #10

This looks awesome (although I think the name could use a little work). It also brings up a question I have for HN: Every few years, I make an attempt to learn to use one of the classic editors like vim or emacs, and inevitably give up after the enormous productivity drop I suffer when writing code. I just can't seem to pick up the muscle memory required to become fast with these tools, and the overwhelming array of…

[deleted]

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#89

Post by falcolas »

omtose wrote: post #83
kaoD wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure I understand what you mean.

For example the fact that the terminal does not make any difference between and . Or and .

How is that destructive?

Visual editors assign various non-editing tasks to command sequences as well. Pycharm moves the cursor around parenthesis with C-m for example, Cmd-M minimizes windows, and Cmd-I does formatting.

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#90

Post by notheguyouthink »

reitanqild wrote: post #65
notheguyouthink wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said I suspect most people would be better off learning a good IDE properly, including but not limited to: To be clear, do you think a "good IDE" is inherently better than Vim/Kako for most people? Personally i don't see a difference in a GUI based editor and a text based editor. In fact, i quite prefer text based, because it forces an editor to treat the keyboard as a first class citizen - GUI IDEs can get la…

To be clear, do you think a "good IDE" is inherently better than Vim/Kako for most people? Right now, for most people: very much yes. Personally i don't see a difference in a GUI based editor and a text based editor. In fact, i quite prefer text based, because it forces an editor to treat the keyboard as a first class citizen - GUI IDEs can get lazy and revert to mouse whenever they please. Fair point. However: Betwe…

> Here is where I'll argue that the main advantage of the big IDEs are that they have focused on UX for years.

Yea, i definitely agree there. It's also that GUI IDEs tend to cater towards.. well, a different crowd. What that means in real world terms in often a product with rough edges, confusing patterns, and a horribly steep learning curve.

I enjoy seeing products and languages (programming) focus on learning as core feature of the product. It really is inherently important to a projects success.

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