Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#21

Post by omtose » Tue, Dec 13, 2016, 2:09 PM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #7

Looks great. Does it have a different scripting language, or is it still VimL? What kind of plugin support does it have? Is it embeddable? Does it have a messaging API like Neovim? How well does it handle long text lines and long documents?

Some answers as a user:

No scripting language, most of the heavy lifting done in plugin is through shell calls (asynchronously or not). Example here [1]. I personally think that it's kinda hard to grok to be honest.

Thanks to the client server architecture, it is possible to make an external UI[2].

There is no line wrapping currently. Don't know about long documents, but the editor in general is very efficient.

[1] https://github.com/mawww/kakoune/blob/master/rc/core/grep.ka...

[2] https://github.com/mawww/kakoune/blob/master/doc/json_ui.asc...

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#22

Post by dangom » Tue, Dec 13, 2016, 2:11 PM UTC

ncd wrote: post #10

This looks awesome (although I think the name could use a little work). It also brings up a question I have for HN: Every few years, I make an attempt to learn to use one of the classic editors like vim or emacs, and inevitably give up after the enormous productivity drop I suffer when writing code. I just can't seem to pick up the muscle memory required to become fast with these tools, and the overwhelming array of…

I learned Emacs because I was interested in following the SICP and learning Scheme. The synergy between lispy languages and Emacs is just too great to look for another editor.

In that spirit, I'd say learning an editor with a steep learning curve just for the sake of learning isn't very effective - and that is probably the reason you end up frustrated. However, if you can find something else to learn within the editor - so that learning the editor comes as a side-effect - you'll progress much faster.

I believe this to be the reason I haven't been able to pick up Vim. Editors are tools - and if we see no use in the tool, we'll never get good at it.

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#23

Post by dcminter » Tue, Dec 13, 2016, 2:11 PM UTC

ncd wrote: post #10

This looks awesome (although I think the name could use a little work). It also brings up a question I have for HN: Every few years, I make an attempt to learn to use one of the classic editors like vim or emacs, and inevitably give up after the enormous productivity drop I suffer when writing code. I just can't seem to pick up the muscle memory required to become fast with these tools, and the overwhelming array of…

I'm in a similar position. I do use vim but only for the most basic of editing tasks. I certainly haven't made the switch - but I read this just the other day and it's at least addressing the issue that we have:

http://yehudakatz.com/2010/07/29/everyone-who-tried-to-convi...

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#24

Post by masukomi » Tue, Dec 13, 2016, 2:12 PM UTC

greenspot wrote: post #18

If you are wondering why Kakoune and not Vim, the OP claims... (you find following passages later in his post and they don't reflect my opinion) > A design goal of Kakoune is to beat vim at its own game, while providing a cleaner editing model. > Kakoune manages to beat Vim at the keystroke count game in most cases, using much more idiomatic commands. > Kakoune provides an efficient code editing environment, both ver…

The last one is compelling, but the new "editing language" and paradigm that's been put together is _really_ compelling. Being able to see what a "sentence" is going to do as you're typing it is a huge improvement on vim. I _love_ vim, but executing complex commands is like shouting into a dark tunnel and hoping the person on the other end understands what you were trying to say.

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#25

Post by markdog12 » Tue, Dec 13, 2016, 2:12 PM UTC

ncd wrote: post #10

This looks awesome (although I think the name could use a little work). It also brings up a question I have for HN: Every few years, I make an attempt to learn to use one of the classic editors like vim or emacs, and inevitably give up after the enormous productivity drop I suffer when writing code. I just can't seem to pick up the muscle memory required to become fast with these tools, and the overwhelming array of…

I learned vim about 2 months ago. I started by doing vimtutor and just messing around practicing a few nights. Then I forced myself to start using it for work. At first, things were really slow and a bit frustrating, but after a few days, I felt like I was editing faster than before. Then you pick up more and more tricks, and it just keeps getting faster. I would never go back now. And if you're the type of person who gets excited by learning little productivity boosts, you'll love it. I know if may seem like a Herculean task at first, but really, in just a few days practice your muscle memory will be there.

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#26

Post by omtose » Tue, Dec 13, 2016, 2:15 PM UTC

aamederen wrote: post #2

I liked the ideas and especially the paperclip :) I couldn't find whether it is completely written from scratch or a vim fork? If not, why is it not a vim fork?

You can also use a cat or nothing as "helper".

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#27

Post by eptcyka » Tue, Dec 13, 2016, 2:16 PM UTC

What I'm interested in is whether the editor will have nicer interfaces for plugins - async evaluation of things is a massive pain in vim. The same could be said for regular expressions to do syntax highlighting.

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#28

Post by omtose » Tue, Dec 13, 2016, 2:18 PM UTC

As a user, I think this is the main reason why I like kakoune:

> Another often overlooked property of using a text editing language is that it’s fun.

Some other things that I like about it that are not mentioned:

The author is responsive to feature requests and bugs on github.

The codebase is very well-made, if you have any interest in C++ I recommend taking a look at it.

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#29

Post by laktak » Tue, Dec 13, 2016, 2:19 PM UTC

ncd wrote: post #10

This looks awesome (although I think the name could use a little work). It also brings up a question I have for HN: Every few years, I make an attempt to learn to use one of the classic editors like vim or emacs, and inevitably give up after the enormous productivity drop I suffer when writing code. I just can't seem to pick up the muscle memory required to become fast with these tools, and the overwhelming array of…

I just discovered that I can use vi(m) on the command line (`set -o vi` for bash) - double win

Re: Why Kakoune – The quest for a better code editor

#30

Post by rco8786 » Tue, Dec 13, 2016, 2:19 PM UTC

ncd wrote: post #10

This looks awesome (although I think the name could use a little work). It also brings up a question I have for HN: Every few years, I make an attempt to learn to use one of the classic editors like vim or emacs, and inevitably give up after the enormous productivity drop I suffer when writing code. I just can't seem to pick up the muscle memory required to become fast with these tools, and the overwhelming array of…

How I learned Vim:

1) beat http://vim-adventures.com/

2) Turned on Vim bindings in intellij, can always just drop into insert mode when you forget something and do whatever as normal

3) Once I was comfortable with 2, switched to real Vim

4) Suffered a bit, but nothing terrible

5) Never want to go back