Things You Notice When You Quit the News • Hacker News Board

Re: Things You Notice When You Quit the News

#281

Post by Forlien » Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 9:56 AM UTC

knz wrote: post #87

equalarrow wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Paying attention to current events and bearing witness to some of the darkest aspects of human history is important at a societal level and if you don't think it is important to you personally then consider yourself lucky to live a life where the real world doesn't creep in often. But, how do you even know what really happens? Mainstream news is ridiculous in its intent because it literally is "if it thinks it stin…

> But, how do you even know what really happens? Mainstream news is ridiculous in its intent because it literally is "if it thinks it stinks, if it bleeds it leads". There is nothing good to get from mainstream news. Nothing. Sliced and diced to the most emotional snippets you could conceive of. The only ways to mitigate this is to use a healthy amount of skepticism, to educate yourself on the historical context of o…

Interestingly, I took this quote to mean both that reported news is biased, but the decision of what events to report upon is biased too. Being a skeptic solves the first issue. For the second, filtering what you read doesn't help if you aren't reading stories that are valuable to you but aren't tragic / scary / interesting enough for the rest of the news source's readers. Since news sources are biased, how can you know what you aren't seeing?

Re: Things You Notice When You Quit the News

#282

Post by voidz » Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 9:57 AM UTC

voidz wrote: post #267

bshimmin wrote: post #261

I can't really get onboard with this. A lot of the comments here, and the commentary in the article itself, talk about how depressing the news is, how biased it is, about Gell-Mann amnesia -- and they're all right. But from my own experience, the people I know who don't follow the news (either at all, or extremely minimally) are spectacularly ill-informed; they get their news either third-hand (which suffers from all…

I think this is inevitable. Even the effect of mass media going against so-called "fake news" won't have the effect they desire: In my estimation people will stop trusting and hence following all of it. It pays off, for as you and I have both gathered from the comments it is obvious that people do feel their lives improve once they "tune out". Since 2010 or so, this applies to me as well. Besides, I don't know for ho…

One thing to add: the only source I loyally follow is the No Agenda Show (http://www.noagendashow.com - a podcast which I help out technically, fully pro bono) because they are the only source of media that has no advertisers to keep happy, they get 100% of their income via donations, and they don't even digest the news as much as analyse where the news comes from, and what the interests and hidden agendas are of those that bring it. The show is interesting, fun, informative and thought provoking, so worth mentioning in its own right.

That being said — as it, despite my intentions, might be considered a plug because I am a volunteer with them (i.e. I am not benefitting from more listeners, though do get a kick out of seeing the numbers increase), it feels more appropriate to detach this bit from my parent response.

Re: Things You Notice When You Quit the News

#283

Post by scarygliders » Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 9:57 AM UTC

jurjenh wrote: post #91

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to ruin my own chances, but New Zealand is apparently quite welcoming to a high-skilled professional. I mean, yes, you then have to live in a boringly peaceful country on the other side of the world from anything exciting. But right now, that means you're on the other side of the world from anything "exciting".

Except for things like volcanoes and earthquakes... Though grantedly that is a different kind of excitement. You're still subject to much the same kind of media merry-go-round, and subjectively is probably not even that far away.

> Except for things like volcanoes and earthquakes

As someone who lived and worked in Japan for 6 years, lived not too far away from the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant (Koriyama city), and went through the M9 quake in 2011 I can confirm this 100%. Life got rather wobbly.

If you live in some location prone to natural disasters, inevitably you will become the news, or at least live in the news.

Re: Things You Notice When You Quit the News

#284

Post by CM30 » Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 10:00 AM UTC

cloakandswagger wrote: post #17

pipio21 wrote: post #12

5. You are being manipulated by mainstream news. You can learn Arabic or Russian and go to Ukraine or Syria or Iraq and inform yourself talking to the people there, both sides of the story, or you can let the TV media tell you what is happening. I have done it(I don't know much Arabic and a little Russian but I have traveled there) and it is quite an astonishment that what TV shows you has nothing to do with reality.…

Look at recent events if you need further evidence of this. The term "fake news" has exploded in just under a month in the mainstream media. If my memory serves me, tabloids like The Enquirer have been sitting on news stands for as long as I can remember. So how did this fervor over "fake news" coalesce so quickly and uniformly? Mainstream outlets move in lockstep with each other and these are the final, desperate de…

Yeah, fake news is a narrative being pushed by the mainstream media to try and discredit alternative news sources (like say, popular YouTube channels, independent blogs and social media profiles) as well as to solidify their role as 'gatekeepers'.

Heck, it's basically the non gaming equivalent of the 'gamers are dead' stories that become suspiciously widespread after GamerGate took off.

Re: Things You Notice When You Quit the News

#285

Post by thewarrior » Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 10:00 AM UTC

bshimmin wrote: post #261

I can't really get onboard with this. A lot of the comments here, and the commentary in the article itself, talk about how depressing the news is, how biased it is, about Gell-Mann amnesia -- and they're all right. But from my own experience, the people I know who don't follow the news (either at all, or extremely minimally) are spectacularly ill-informed; they get their news either third-hand (which suffers from all…

Some of the arguments here remind me of the puritanical strains of religions. For eg: I am against Wahhabi Islam.

They're just like other Muslims but they take percepts that are valid in Islam and run with them to the ridiculous extreme.

Same goes for cutting down on Social media or regulating your consumption of news. There is nothing to be gained by turning into a puritan. It makes you feel good about yourself for a while but you're just cutting yourself off from vast dimensions of human experience.

Its possible to read HN once a day just to keep up instead of refreshing it every few hours.

Its possible to stop visiting twitter every hour and perhaps use it a few times a week.

Its possible to restrict your reading to good long form articles in NYT or WaPo or The Economist.

If we started completely cutting out anything and everything that had a remotely negative influence the logical conclusion is that we end up turning into Puritan Wahhabis who don't drink alcohol , ruthlessly suppress sexuality and generally lead colourless lives.

EDIT:

Downvoters , I'd appreciate if you gave your reasons.

Re: Things You Notice When You Quit the News

#286

Post by CM30 » Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 10:02 AM UTC

Tempest1981 wrote: post #8

The local news seems to always be about murders and violence. Why is it beneficial to learn about every instance of "humans behaving badly"? (Celebrities, ok, maybe, but random people?)

If it bleeds it leads. That's the motivation behind a lot of news coverage.

Fear and drama brings views and clicks.

Re: Things You Notice When You Quit the News

#287

Post by masondixon » Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 10:05 AM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #268

bshimmin wrote: post #261

I can't really get onboard with this. A lot of the comments here, and the commentary in the article itself, talk about how depressing the news is, how biased it is, about Gell-Mann amnesia -- and they're all right. But from my own experience, the people I know who don't follow the news (either at all, or extremely minimally) are spectacularly ill-informed; they get their news either third-hand (which suffers from all…

I disagree. In my experience, the people who actively don't follow any news at all are fully aware of their blindside. They just don't care (or have judged, quite reasonably, that they have more immediate personal concerns) The worst people are those who are glued to the TV or net, closely watching things as if the future of the world depended on whether they knew politician X was fired right now or five minutes from…

I agree.

But I think someone's opinion on this will differ depending on where they fit on the political spectrum.

Right-wing thinks MSM has liberal bias - would rather people avoid it.

Left-wing wants people to consume more MSM - vice-versa.

Re: Things You Notice When You Quit the News

#288

Post by throwaway7312 » Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 10:05 AM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #209

cloakandswagger wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at recent events if you need further evidence of this. The term "fake news" has exploded in just under a month in the mainstream media. If my memory serves me, tabloids like The Enquirer have been sitting on news stands for as long as I can remember. So how did this fervor over "fake news" coalesce so quickly and uniformly? Mainstream outlets move in lockstep with each other and these are the final, desperate de…

It coalesced when the "MSM" managed to get the election outcome in the US so comically wrong. The only possible reason for the mistake was "fake news". It turns out "fake news" has been a driving force since roughly the time twitter arrived. I can only hope the (in theory) REAL media will eventually give up on "first is best" and instead focus on ACTUAL REPORTING . Relaying what twitter has to say about a world event…

That's not what this is about.

It erupted across every news channel precisely as Pizzagate did. If you searched on Google News for "Pizzagate", what you would get was "FAKE NEWS!" "FAKE NEWS!" "FAKE NEWS!"

The MSM hasn't been this desperate since it was shrieking to high heaven there was no chance in any universe in which Donald Trump could possibly win the US election. Whether this is because the MSM is desperate to cover up this issue - like the Pizzagate investigators allege - or there is some other coordinated motive at play (like not losing control of the narrative), its obvious the campaign is coordinated and aimed at some specific desired outcome, one way or the other.

Pizzagate itself is just a mountain of circumstantial evidence. Circumstantial evidence is not necessarily evidence of a crime, and often leads people looking at it to jump to incorrect conclusions. But trying to sweep it under the rug with frantic cries of "FAKE NEWS!!1!" does nothing but make conspiracy theories grow.

There are some extremely strangely-worded emails that came out of John Podesta's Wikileaks. All kinds of bizarre pictures on Comet Ping Pong's Instagram. They use code words identified by the FBI as pedophile code words - but it could be coincidence. One of the neighboring pizza restaurants to Comet Ping Pong had an FBI-identified pedophile symbol in its logo (since removed) - but it could be coincidence.

What a real journalist would do is say, "Huh. There's a lot of odd circumstantial evidence here. Let's get to the bottom of this and either rule it out or see what questions are still on the table."

What the MSM is doing instead is taking down articles on high level pedophile rings, like this one that no longer exists on NY Times:

http://archive.is/uq4oF

Then trying to tar and feather anyone who asks questions as a "Fake News" personality.

I don't know if there's any merit to the claims around Comet Ping Pong and the Podestas. It could just be some people are REALLY into pizza and when they talk about having small children in pools as entertainment those kids are there to sing Christmas carols or something. But the MSM's frantic efforts to drown it out by screaming about "fake news" is the Streisand Effect in action. They're giving anyone who wants to believe in a conspiracy even more reason to think there is some deep cover up that extends to the highest levels, and giving this thing legs it wouldn't have if John Podesta broke his tweet silence and just said, "This is all ridiculous and none of it is true," or the MSM did an investigative piece that conclusively explained away the things the Internet sleuths pursuing Pizzagate are hoisting up as evidence of a conspiracy.

Re: Things You Notice When You Quit the News

#289

Post by jonathanstrange » Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 10:07 AM UTC

bshimmin wrote: post #261

I can't really get onboard with this. A lot of the comments here, and the commentary in the article itself, talk about how depressing the news is, how biased it is, about Gell-Mann amnesia -- and they're all right. But from my own experience, the people I know who don't follow the news (either at all, or extremely minimally) are spectacularly ill-informed; they get their news either third-hand (which suffers from all…

I agree. Ignoring bad news for the sake of feeling a bit better surely isn't a sign of being adult and mature.

However, I also believe that TV news and constant news checking are unnecessary and can make you depressed. You can easily get a wrong perception of mankind in general and the stupidity of other people by consuming too much news. This happened to me recently with news about Trump and the composition of his new government, for example. I genuinely got depressed from this. So I've limited my exposure a bit. It's not as if I won't find out who's in the new government anyway, and I don't need to hear about obviously stupid tweets, deliberate ignorance of facts and involuntary attempts to lead the world to WW3 every day. (What makes me depressed is ignorance, especially deliberate ignorance, not other other political views, and I'm sure I speak for many people in saying so.)

I've also found out that newspapers and their websites are much better than TV channels and their websites, so I'm now surfing to the Washington Post from time to time to keep me informed. Since I'm not living in an English-speaking country, subscribing to a good English international newspaper in paper form is a bit too expensive for me, but I've also found out that the International New York Tribune (formerly International Herald Tribune) is a great printed source for the weekend, and it's available at every international newsstand in the world. It's informative but not so long that you spend a whole afternoon on it. My girlfriend loves it and buys it all the time.

As for a bias of news, sorry I can't confirm that at all. Every news source is and always has been politically biased in one way or another, but in my experience the only people who complain about this are those who are unable to distinguish news from opinion and are heavily biased themselves.

Re: Things You Notice When You Quit the News

#290

Post by croon » Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 10:08 AM UTC

sooheon wrote: post #210

jacalata wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do I understand correctly that you would like to take back your earlier claim: >Whether you agree or not, if you ask any suspect if they're guilty, the answer is "No!"

I'm sorry but even I don't follow your logic. AFAICT your parent is simply pointing out the pot calling the kettle black.

He's saying that if the "suspect" is NYT, then his logic fails because they're reporting on their own fake news.