Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit • Hacker News Board

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#321

Post by rmc » Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 11:53 AM UTC

gkya wrote: post #118

rmc wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am staggered by the amount of people here who object to Imzy's "Be Nice"-policy on the basis that it limits free speech. It's especially curious, because HN does try to have a free speech uber alles approach. If limiting speech is good for HN, why isn't it good for Imzy? It's also important to remember that reddit is very pro-free speech, but bans some protected speech, namely, doxxing. Redditors started to dox p…

No right is limitless. I don't know about other countries but in elementary school where I am we're taught a person's freedom is limited by the freedoms of others , and freedom of speech is certainly limited by other people's human rights, including the right to human dignity. AFAIK the declaration of human rights include that right. There is no freedom without responsibility, and that's why people who aren't or can'…

"No right is limitless" I agree. But some want no limits on speech, they want to be able to say any homophobic thing they want, on any forum. And when/if that is banned/removed they complain about free speech.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#322

Post by sctb » Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 5:35 PM UTC

intransigent wrote: post #309

nekohacker wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that was 4chan?

Reddit is 4chan for pussies.

Please comment civilly and substantively on Hacker News or not at all.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#323

Post by vanderreeah » Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 5:40 PM UTC

kristofferR wrote: post #288

vanderreeah wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only say that when you say "in practise" you sound dogmatic, defensive and vague. I am going on the assumption that you have not (as I have not) performed any kind of scientific / sociological investigation into this and that in fact when you say "in practise" you mean "in the limited set of encounters with safe spaces that I have experienced". I admit you say "often", thereby admitting the possibility that som…

I don't really understand the point of your comment either, you didn't give any examples or give any indications that you have performed any scientific/sociological investigation into safe spaces either. My phrasing of the comment wasn't the best, I admit that, but you made an unsubstantiated claim to what safe spaces are in the comment I replied to, just as unsubstantiated as my claims. I was actually deliberately v…

My point was precisely that neither of us has done this kind of investigation (in a clause you clearly didn't parse, I actually said that I hadn't either), and that in the absence of such large-scale evidence remarks as vague as yours only have even the minimum of meaning with at least some experiential data. You also contradict yourself: here you say that I was making an unsubstantiated claim, whereas earlier you said I was paraphrasing the dictionary definition. The first is indefensible in arguments like this; the second seems like a reasonable approach.

I agree about googling.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#324

Post by sctb » Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 5:55 PM UTC

intortus wrote: post #273

makomk wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think that the only reason someone would disagree with you is because they're a literal KKK supporter, but this is somehow fighting against an authoritarian monoculture? Right. Had nothing to do with said clique's awful treatment of LGBT people, dubiously moral tactics, tendency to see anyone who disagrees as literal neo-Nazis, and utter refusal to brook any kind of internal dissent over anything at all, of cours…

> You think that the only reason someone would disagree with you is because they're a literal KKK supporter, but this is somehow fighting against an authoritarian monoculture? This is a position that you've pulled straight out of your own ass. Is there any reason to believe that the rest of your loggorhea is any more truthful?

No matter what sort of threads we find ourselves in, the guidelines ask us not to comment uncivilly like this.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#325

Post by intortus » Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 6:29 PM UTC

sctb wrote: post #324

intortus wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You think that the only reason someone would disagree with you is because they're a literal KKK supporter, but this is somehow fighting against an authoritarian monoculture? This is a position that you've pulled straight out of your own ass. Is there any reason to believe that the rest of your loggorhea is any more truthful?

No matter what sort of threads we find ourselves in, the guidelines ask us not to comment uncivilly like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

In what way was I uncivil? They composed a strawman argument and attributed it to me, hence they pulled it out of their ass.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#326

Post by nommm-nommm » Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 6:45 PM UTC

webwanderings wrote: post #266

grzm wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The invitation isn't to come in and do whatever you please. The invitation contains conditions. In the case of Imzy, one of them is to be nice. And the invitation doesn't necessarily mean you can stay as long as you want flouting the house rules. And the house rules can change if the owner decides the current ones need to change.

You are missing the point. Your secondary intention has no relevance because your primary intention is to "invite the strangers". When you invite strangers, you should expect anything.

I've invited people who are strangers to me into my home many times. Friends invite friends so strangers show up at my house and I welcome them. Everyone was polite because social norms dictate politeness when you are a guest. If they weren't then you bet I'd tell them to GTFO. I don't have to "expect anything" because it's my home, I make the rules.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#327

Post by nommm-nommm » Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 6:54 PM UTC

industriousthou wrote: post #304

victorhooi wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you do in real-life? Would you make a mockery of them? Or would you simply ignore them? I find a lot of people (on both sides) will do things online behind the shield of anonymity they wouldn't otherwise in real life. I find this behaviour cowardly. Would you confront these people in real life, and mock them to their faces? I suspect a lot of people who do it online wouldn't in real life (if for no other r…

To be honest, yeah, in a lot of social environments that I've been in, if someone were to make a show of some really bizarre beliefs, they would be openly mocked. I've worked on construction crews were people will rib each other over almost anything. If you start spouting off about the earth being flat, you're for damn sure going to catch some flak and everyone is going to have a good laugh at your expense.

Is that really a good thing though? I mean it's not the polite thing at least and I don't care to be around impolite people.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#328

Post by nommm-nommm » Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 7:18 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #150

jasode wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>imagine a world where women who advocate for suffrage and women's rights are [...], rejected from conferences Your expanded idea of free speech is noble but it's not possible for society to provide. Free speech allowed by the government is possible. Free speech hosted and paid for by private commercial entities is impossible -- in any long-term sustaining way. The "free speech on commercial entities" would require 2…

I didn't advocate creating any laws. I was simply describing a concept that goes beyond congress. However, lets roll with your thought experiment. Lets consider a variation of "equal rights" that applies to more than just the government - say it also applied to lending. It would require 2 extra draconian laws: 1) A law to force private entities to associate with people they dislike, even if that association causes to…

Which laws are those?

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#329

Post by nommm-nommm » Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 7:33 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #147

makomk wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything has to be a law. For example, one could imagine a world where the social norm was that services embodied some more generalized idea of free speech, and people are reluctant to use services that don't do this because one day it's likely to be used against them. Instead, the press are pushing the opposite social norm, that sites are somehow morally obligated to restrict speech: http://motherboard.vice.co…

>For example, one could imagine a world where the social norm was that services embodied some more generalized idea of free speech, and people are reluctant to use services that don't do this because one day it's likely to be used against them. Ok, I'm having trouble parsing what you wrote. I also looked at your link to see how it relates. Tell me if I interpreted your hypothetical scenario correctly: Suppose we have…

>Suppose we have website called OrganicMothers.com that focuses on things like mothers breastfeeding their infants, growing veggies in the back yard and using a blender to pulverize it into homemade baby food. That website has heavy censoring against posts about artificial foods, or alternative viewpoints about synthetic breast milk, or messages with a disrespectful tone.

Indeed these sort of communities actually require "heavy censorship" to remain functional and on topic otherwise it enviably would be overrun with trolls or people "looking to debate." It actually cannot be prevented without moderation. Without moderation the internet is not functional for the majority of users.

Anyways, any form of moderation at all, even removing spam and off topic posts is "censorship." Commercial speech is also speech so removing spam is "restricting freedom of speech." (not that I think "freedom of speech" is applicable to private websites, because that's silly)

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#330

Post by karmakaze » Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 7:53 PM UTC

60654 wrote: post #43

I've been using imzy since very early on, and I have to say, I really like the idea of it. The basic premise is basically: "do whatever but play nice". And if you don't play nice you get modded and eventually kicked out. I can get behind that TBH. Also, to be sure, they do have some growing pains to go through. There are too many empty communities at this point (they should've started with fewer high-traffic ones). A…

As a long time Imzy user, do you know of a way to hide the images so that we're left with text more similarly Reddit or HN?

I registered, because I needed to before being able to browse stories and found that it isn't anything like Reddit UX-wise not even considering the niceness element.