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Let’s relocate a bunch of government agencies to the Midwest

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Re: Let’s relocate a bunch of government agencies to the Midwest

#81

Post by vinay427 »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #73
vinay427 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chicago is its own beast, and most midwesterners don't really identify with it This is certainly not true with people in the Detroit area, in my experience. Maybe it's true in the rural Midwest but in urban and suburban Midwest, Chicago is definitely viewed as an integral part as was Detroit some time ago (and possibly still today). This seems like a case of "if it doesn't fit the argument, let's not count it."

It isn't that it isn't integral - in fact, I see it as integral enough that I truly think Chicago keeps the midwest alive, at least portions of it. It is just different. A lot of the problems that other midwestern cities have - decline of factories, for example - chicago is able to make up for to an extent. And to me, that is the main thing: The chicago experience doesn't match the average Midwestern city experience…

This seems like you're justifying the "if it doesn't fit the narrative, it doesn't count" case that I mentioned. Chicago is still a Midwestern city whether it's doing well or it's doing poorly, just as Detroit is a Midwestern city when it was booming decades ago and when it's not currently. "Midwest" is a geographic and perhaps cultural term, not a term that refers to failing cities.

Re: Let’s relocate a bunch of government agencies to the Midwest

#82

Post by thesagan »

nightski wrote: post #42

Judging by comments it fees like the HN crowd has an incredibly warped view of the Midwest. It is amusing because it is a rather great place to live.

Being from the midwest, and working from within and without, there's been definitely been a growing anti-midwest sentiment coming from the coasts. As if it's dead and now should be written off. Abandon the place, like Detroit. Go to S.F. instead, where C.O.L. is extreme, and because jobs should concentrate. (Well, yes, to a degree.)

Since its industrial-labor power fell we've been seen as more of a joke than of anything serious. (Which drives the politics a bit wacky, too.)

Re: Let’s relocate a bunch of government agencies to the Midwest

#83

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

benbrown wrote: post #3
GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #2

The author suggests moving all 20k NIH employees to Cleveland, and seems to think that all 20k will go along with this instead of finding different employment that doesn't involve uprooting their families and moving to Ohio.

The basic premise may be disruptive in a "Big Bang" move but could be accomplished gradually by building new facilities and shifting project flow over time. Also, the DoD makes fast changes like this all the time as the result of BRAC. Government employees don't tend to just up and change jobs - they are career workers who like the stability and promise of a pension.

(a) The difference between moving civilians and moving military personnel is that if a civilian doesn't want to go they can just resign, but if the military person doesn't want to go they have to suck it up and go anyway. (b) The "good" government pension hasn't been available since the 80s, (b') uprooting your family and moving hundreds of miles away is a pretty big blow to stability.

Re: Let’s relocate a bunch of government agencies to the Midwest

#85

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

douche wrote: post #54
mavelikara wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more relevant question is this: are there enough people with right skillsets willing to relocate to Cleveland?

Money talks, and the same salary goes a lot farther in Cleveland than DC. It's really dumb that we compress all of our workforce into a few cities, especially in an age when 90% of office jobs can be done just as efficiently anywhere with a high-speed internet connection, rather than face-to-face in a cube farm.

> the same salary goes a lot farther in Cleveland than DC

It's not the same salary, DC's locality pay is higher than Cleveland's : https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries... vs https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries...

Re: Let’s relocate a bunch of government agencies to the Midwest

#86

Post by saycheese »

mapt wrote: post #47
xherberta wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because unskilled workers (and their children) fare better when uprooted and transplanted into cities??? Farm Bill subsidies have incentivized modes of agriculture that minimize labor inputs, so subsidies have already largely depopulated fly-over country. Are you thinking that these rural folk are getting more than their share of federal services? I don't see how... Interstates have to be maintained anyway, and schoo…

Basically, yes they do. if you build the housing that the market demands , as happens in most cities on Earth, people tend to move there voluntarily. But we haven't. We've pretended that these urban engines of economic growth and fiscal productivity are simply an area of private real estate investments or money trees for state and federal governments to pluck to feed the less privileged. We've surrendered this massiv…

>> "For $2M in _construction costs_ to house each family you could house the population of the entire world, 7 billion people, comfortably in a place the size of the SF city limits."

Interesting, please explain or provide a link to an explanation.

Re: Let’s relocate a bunch of government agencies to the Midwest

#87

Post by 60654 »

nrjdhsbsid wrote: post #32
60654 wrote: post #20

Pretty weird to see a discussion of the economy in the midwest without a single mention of Chicago - you know, the third largest city in the US... ;)

Just moved out of Chicago. Would not recommend. Besides the north corner and downtown the city and state are broke poor and crime ridden. Enjoy your insane taxes without much to show for it. Chicago is notorious for corruption and the massive state budget routinely evaporates and screws everyone

FWIW, I moved back to Chicago from SF. Would totally recommend. World class cultural institutions (SFBA can feel a little provencial at times), great quality of life, super affordable for a city of its stature so starting a business is much much cheaper here.

To each their own, but if you think taxes or politics are broken here, you've clearly not experienced SF. :)

Re: Let’s relocate a bunch of government agencies to the Midwest

#88

Post by beansbeans »

The supposed precedent for this is that DC survived sequestration?

The worst thing to happen during sequestration was a week or two of furloughs -- the author is proposing the permanent removal of tens of thousands of jobs.

More than half of federal employees are over 45. So you're either forcing them to uproot their families, or (more likely) forcing them to switch careers at an age where that's not so easy.

Re: Let’s relocate a bunch of government agencies to the Midwest

#89

Post by mcguire »

gibsjose wrote: post #56

Although I don't think this is feasible or even necessarily the right thing to do, I personally am dying to go back to the Midwest. Coming from beautiful, friendly, cold Northern Michigan, I'd be ecstatic to get out of the DC area, but good luck moving the other 10,000 NASA employees. It's a different culture in the Midwest. Some good, some bad, but overall I personally prefer the ability to have friendly conversatio…

It's always fun when someone from HQ is transferred out to the rural Siberian hinterland of MSFC. A combination of "Wait, they have Starbucks here in the middle of nowhere?" and "Why are there cows next door?"

Re: Let’s relocate a bunch of government agencies to the Midwest

#90

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

nightski wrote: post #42

Judging by comments it fees like the HN crowd has an incredibly warped view of the Midwest. It is amusing because it is a rather great place to live.

I've lived and travelled all over the country and the only thing the Midwest has going for it is it's not the South.
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