Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit • Hacker News Board

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#221

Post by intortus » Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 11:21 PM UTC

frou_dh wrote: post #60

BEEdwards wrote: post #29

Lot's "but this isn't free speech" in here, but that's exactly the point, free speech has been tried and it leads to shit holes like reddit and voat. Places you might visit, but wouldn't recommend or even admit to using in a mixed group. People talk about free speech like it's some goal, but in reality all people seem to do with it is make fun of fat people and post stolen naked pictures of celebrities. When confront…

> People talk about free speech like it's some goal, but in reality all people seem to do with it is make fun of fat people and post stolen naked pictures of celebrities. All people do in reality ... if for some reason you choose to disregard the huge number of fairly autonomous communities on Reddit? If I used that ultra-broad brush for HN, I'd say that all commenters here seem to do is post links to xkcd 927 and th…

Autonomous public communities on Reddit do not exist because adequate protections against the male white supremacist hive mind do not exist.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#222

Post by gkya » Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 11:23 PM UTC

gonmf wrote: post #218

gkya wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No right is limitless. I don't know about other countries but in elementary school where I am we're taught a person's freedom is limited by the freedoms of others , and freedom of speech is certainly limited by other people's human rights, including the right to human dignity. AFAIK the declaration of human rights include that right. There is no freedom without responsibility, and that's why people who aren't or can'…

I'll let you on on a secret that you aren't thought in elementary school. Real human rights are intrinsic and inalienable. Things like the right for your pursuit of happiness and freedom of thought and speech. All supposed rights that require other people's labor or permission (health, education, shelter) are bogus, they are just organizations moving goalposts. Real rights are not bestowed. Bogus rights are to not be…

Well I hope then that you end up in a society like what you describe, where there are no bogus rights. All the best.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#223

Post by this-dang-guy » Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 11:24 PM UTC

60654 wrote: post #43

I've been using imzy since very early on, and I have to say, I really like the idea of it. The basic premise is basically: "do whatever but play nice". And if you don't play nice you get modded and eventually kicked out. I can get behind that TBH. Also, to be sure, they do have some growing pains to go through. There are too many empty communities at this point (they should've started with fewer high-traffic ones). A…

The concept is nice but I have a real issue with this part:

Why do they need pixel tags for tracking, and why don't they support DNT? No 'new' website should put up with this. I'll cut some slack to the 2010 and before era sites, since they've got a lot of legacy to work with.

Pixel Tags. In addition, we use "Pixel Tags" (also referred to as clear Gifs, Web beacons, or Web bugs). Pixel Tags are tiny graphic images with a unique identifier, similar in function to Cookies, that are used to track online movements of Web users. In contrast to Cookies, which are stored on a user’s computer hard drive, Pixel Tags are embedded invisibly in Web pages. Pixel Tags also allow us to send e-mail messages in a format users can read, and they tell us whether e-mails have been opened to ensure that we are sending only messages that are of interest to our users. We may use this information to reduce or eliminate messages sent to a user. We do not tie the information gathered by Pixel Tags to our users’ Personal Data. How We Respond to Do Not Track Signals. We do not currently respond to "do not track" signals or other mechanisms that might enable Users to opt out of tracking on our site.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#224

Post by intortus » Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 11:24 PM UTC

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #213

vivekd wrote: post #127

I know some subreddits have "be kind and respectful" built into their rules, but this is often gamed by some redditors who will make carefully worded passive aggressive statements at ideological opponents and then quickly call for banning them when they react. There are also moderation issues with volunteer moderators sometimes using different standards of "kind and gentle" based on whether they agreed with the views…

I think you've hit on the core issue here. Whilst I abhor some of the hatred and viciousness posted online, and think it's absurd to try to turn it into a free speech issue, I can understand the benefit of no censorship: drawing the line, consistently, is very, very difficult - maybe impossible. But even reddit draws a line (US law?), so there's no getting away from it. Does anyone here advocate 'free speech' so stro…

Non-consensual sexualization (like upskirts, revenge porn, kiddie porn) gets rationalized as free speech by assholes for whom it is personally self-serving to do so.

Free speech is about being able to have and communicate about ideas that may be against the status quo. It's not about harming people. It's a clear boundary that has been held up both judicially and culturally time and time again.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#225

Post by Mikeb85 » Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 11:26 PM UTC

veddox wrote: post #74

I am staggered by the amount of people here who object to Imzy's "Be Nice"-policy on the basis that it limits free speech. To me that seems to be a rather flawed argumentation: a) The First Amendment of the US Constitution, which guarantees free speech, explicitly does so in a political context ("Congress shall make no law [...] abridging the freedom of speech"). Imzy is not the US Congress, they don't have jurisdict…

I don't think people object to being nice. They object to the current cultural climate where any sort of debate is impossible because any opinion that's outside of the norm is maligned. Hence why so many sites, subreddits, etc..., turn into "circlejerks". Why there's safe spaces and shit in universities. Why opinions, even relatively benign ones, become so polarizing.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#226

Post by this-dang-guy » Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 11:27 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #15

ohyoutravel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit definitely does not have the tech focus hn does. Maybe it did in the long past, but not anymore. Definitely not a substitute for Reddit content without the trolls.

It makes no sense to talk about Reddit and HN as if they had the same scope. It would be more appropriate to compare HN to a particular subreddit.

To me HN is more like 1999-2004 era slashdot. Certainly not like reddit.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#227

Post by intortus » Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 11:27 PM UTC

danols wrote: post #176

Am I limiting free speech if I kick out some racist, hate spewing bully from my house because I don't want to listen to their nonsense? No. It is just common sense and how the 'real' world works. Why should the online world be any different? If there are a few destructive people affecting the experience of the majority lets just kick them out and not deal with them anymore. Problem solved. They don't have the right t…

Free speech just for white men isn't free speech at all. When you don't kick out the racist bully, they turn your space into one that is exclusionary toward minorities. Do you shut up some idiots who have nothing but purely harmful things to say, or all people of color?

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#228

Post by gonmf » Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 11:27 PM UTC

danols wrote: post #176

Am I limiting free speech if I kick out some racist, hate spewing bully from my house because I don't want to listen to their nonsense? No. It is just common sense and how the 'real' world works. Why should the online world be any different? If there are a few destructive people affecting the experience of the majority lets just kick them out and not deal with them anymore. Problem solved. They don't have the right t…

I take it you agree with kicking out the minority on websites that prefer racist, hate spewing bullies then? I take it you wouldn't suggest they be forcefully closed down or anything? As long as the majority is happy, you wouldn't oppose a state to kick out their minorities right? Consensus rule is the right way to go right?

All of these questions are meant in a sarcastic tone.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#229

Post by arama471 » Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 11:27 PM UTC

gdulli wrote: post #158

jdavis703 wrote: post #26

I signed up on their website, went through the onboarding flow and joined a couple of communities. Without them knowing anything about my political leanings they suggested a bunch of anti-Trump communities. I guess they're not trying to solve the "filter bubble" issue, but rather becoming the Reddit for liberals? I mean it's their business for them to run as they like, but I hope somebody can take us past the Breitba…

In 2008 and 2012 respectively, neither the McCain nor Romney campaigns were associated with rampant fraud, demagoguery, and indecency. I didn't vote for either of them, but I didn't believe that they were terrible. The Trump campaign earned a certain image not because it was the Republican ticket but because of its unique properties. There's a price to be paid for that, period. Such as, a lot of communities won't wan…

But he's still the republican candidate (who will also unfortunately be the republican president of these united states). The issue here is taking all of the moderate republicans and putting them in a situation where they only feel welcomed by the extreme variant, and limiting their ability to see coherent counter arguments to what the extreme variant says.

If we set up this dichotomy we will create many problems for ourselves down the line.

Re: Imzy wants to be a kinder, gentler version of Reddit

#230

Post by arama471 » Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 11:30 PM UTC

60654 wrote: post #43

I've been using imzy since very early on, and I have to say, I really like the idea of it. The basic premise is basically: "do whatever but play nice". And if you don't play nice you get modded and eventually kicked out. I can get behind that TBH. Also, to be sure, they do have some growing pains to go through. There are too many empty communities at this point (they should've started with fewer high-traffic ones). A…

> if you don't play nice you get modded

did you mean muted or does modded not mean "promoted to moderator" on izmy?