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AMD responds to Linux kernel maintainer's rejection of AMDGPU patch

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Re: AMD responds to Linux kernel maintainer's rejection of AMDGPU patch

#251

Post by c0nfused »

mangeletti wrote: post #222
dzhang50 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMD doesn't have "gross profit in the $1 - 2 billion range". They have about $1B in revenue per quarter and have had negative profits (i.e. they lose money) for quite some time now. They were on the verge of bankrupcy about a year ago. Maybe Zen can turn their fortunes around, but they're correct in that they don't have the resources for a dedicated development team right now.

Maybe this is why their net is negative; because they don't allocate money to the right things.

In my experience supporting Linux desktop is hardly ever the right thing.

Example: ubutnu cannot consistently ship a version of network manager that supports reconnecting to a wifi network suspend with out being manually restarted.

I suspect that at a dollar value there is most no point but I don't have access to enough data to prove it.

Re: AMD responds to Linux kernel maintainer's rejection of AMDGPU patch

#252

Post by speeder »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #69
Spivak wrote: post #23

I really don't understand why AMD cares so much about getting their driver upstreamed. If their code doesn't meet the kernel standards and they don't want to fix it then just package it up as kernel module and ship it like Nvidia does. Distributions will package it using DKMS and other than some occasional troubleshooting they wont even notice. It's really no difference than Windows in that respect. His arguments see…

They don't have the resources to do it right. I loved that line from his post, in particular. "We have the resources to design a billion-transistor GPU, but not to write a Linux driver for it." Poor management on AMD's part does not constitute an emergency on the Linux kernel's part.

I recently bought an AMD card for the first time, because I was annoyed with nVidia jerk behaviour.

And... I am not sure AMD has resources to design good GPUs either, the GPU I own, the 380X, is hot, power-hungry and buggy.

The RX480 launched recently to replace it, draws too much power from PCI-E slot and can damage people motherboards and raiser cards/cables.

So I am not entirely sure they have resources for their hardware division either, in fact the recent card launches from them all looked "rushed" in some way, and undertested. Some bugs are haunting their cards for 3 years now, and they don't even bother in putting in the "known issues" list anymore, because they have no idea how to fix it, despite having a 300-page+ thread on their support forums about it with people contributing lots of information.

Re: AMD responds to Linux kernel maintainer's rejection of AMDGPU patch

#253

Post by prodigal_erik »

makomk wrote: post #190
prodigal_erik wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMD is trying to merge a Windows driver with enough shims to make it sort of interact with Linux. That might as well be written in Brainfuck from the point of view of a Linux kernel hacker trying to figure out WTF it does. To merge a driver into the kernel is to accept responsibility for maintaining it, which they recognize they are not prepared or even interested in doing.

They've made it clear that this code doesn't come from the Windows driver, it was specifically written with the intention of being usable on any platform. Also, they seem quite willing to maintain it. The problem is that the Linux developers aren't willing to merge code that's usable on anything other than Linux.

Thanks for the correction. They aren't relying upon a Windows API that Linux kernel hackers have no experience with, but instead a new API that nobody has experience with. That's still a huge problem for the maintenance that in-kernel drivers need; they can't have a driver which only one company understands.

Re: AMD responds to Linux kernel maintainer's rejection of AMDGPU patch

#254

Post by angry_octet »

tw04 wrote: post #102
Dylan16807 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Writing the software that makes your hardware work is much more of a revenue-based issue than a profit-based issue. Even if you're losing money you need to balance your development budget, and not cut any segment too far.

Yes, AMD should definitely dedicate an entire team to focusing on writing drivers for desktop Linux. An OS that currently captures less than 1% of the overall desktop gaming market[1]. In other news, McDonald's should really start tailoring their marketing and in-store experience to people making over $10 million/year. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_gaming#Market_share_vs._...

They are doing to to compete in the high margin part of the market, which is workstations, cloud rendering, GPUs, and console contracts. They care zero about low end linux desktop. But what nvidia learned is that the people who do all that high end stuff would much prefer it to just work, and will steer business accordingly.

Re: AMD responds to Linux kernel maintainer's rejection of AMDGPU patch

#255

Post by angry_octet »

c0nfused wrote: post #251
mangeletti wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is why their net is negative; because they don't allocate money to the right things.

In my experience supporting Linux desktop is hardly ever the right thing. Example: ubutnu cannot consistently ship a version of network manager that supports reconnecting to a wifi network suspend with out being manually restarted. I suspect that at a dollar value there is most no point but I don't have access to enough data to prove it.

Your example re wifi is not great, works fine for me. Dell hardware.

Re: AMD responds to Linux kernel maintainer's rejection of AMDGPU patch

#257

Post by Nano2rad »

AMD has been good to Linux and Linux community always supported AMD. Its principle from beginning of creating x86 clone has been something similar to what Linux is to other OSes. There will always be some up and down but has not gone too much away from Linux.

Re: AMD responds to Linux kernel maintainer's rejection of AMDGPU patch

#258

Post by chris_wot »

brainfire wrote: post #223
chris_wot wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think the argument here is that stability is gained from having code shared as closely as possible with the Windows codebase". HTH.

You have to read the rest of the comment too. "HTH"

Indeed, I did which you seem to have thought I didn't read. So, do you think that bunging in code designed for Windows, which specifically uses a HAL, into Linux, which tries its best not to with the philosophy that the code that goes into Linux should be as clear as possible with as small an abstraction layer as possible is good for Linux, or any of the hundreds of developers or companies relying on the maintainers to keep to this coding and architecture style?

I think not. So no, it didn't help.

Re: AMD responds to Linux kernel maintainer's rejection of AMDGPU patch

#259

Post by Zardoz84 »

notalaser wrote: post #178
quetzthecoatl wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it because the high end hardware becoming useless because of the very lack of drivers? Nobody wants to spend lot of money on hardware and don't get to use it optimally. Driver support on platform -> Games released on platform -> Gamers using the platform.

Linux drivers on the nVidia side are OK. I've had excellent performance, and no trouble with them for what I think are already 10 years now, if not more. Lack of driver support is not what's stopping people from releasing Linux games.

> Linux drivers on the nVidia side are OK.

Except for the annoying tearing. I'm considering a RX480 for my next GPU thanks to it.

Re: AMD responds to Linux kernel maintainer's rejection of AMDGPU patch

#260

Post by bonzini »

_yosefk wrote: post #209
sangnoir wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without any conflict, uh? > Nvidia has been the single worst company we've ever dealt with. > - Linus This had nothing to do with the kernel and everything to do with the lack of optimus support (years later, its still shit). > Kernel devs are antagonizing the only two GPU makers that matters Maybe the 2 should ask Intel for some pointers on how to contribute to the kernel the right way. > Open source devs are imma…

Sarah Sharp worked for Intel and apparently didn't manage to contribute to the kernel in a way that would make communication with Torvalds particularly pleasant. I extend my sympathy to anyone paid to contribute code to Linux.

She never had any unpleasant communication herself, for what it's worth.

Most people who are paid to contribute to Linux, including myself, are very happy to do so, and no, it's not a case of Stockholm syndrome.

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