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Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

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Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#101

Post by henrikschroder »

caconym_ wrote: post #87

My experience in school matches that of "The Guy" pretty closely. To this day I still am not quite sure what to make of it; I went to private schools that were probably more challenging than other places I could have been, and I obviously learned a massive amount just being there doing some of the work (to say nothing of the social education), but I just could not make myself care enough to get good grades, especiall…

> I'd like to know how they can avoid the same pitfalls that held me back earlier in life

There's a lot of studies around gifted kids that show that if you praise them for results, they grow up like you (and me), very risk-averse, only applying themselves if they knew they would succeed.

Instead, you should praise kids for effort. Reward work, not just punish non-work, as was done to you.

Even if you're clever, sometimes you just have to sit down and do boring-ass tasks, and it's a very useful adulting skill to have.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#102

Post by lordnacho »

narrator wrote: post #31

Warning! /r/iamverysmart post ahead! I normally wouldn't engage in this, as it's extremely poor manners and terribly arrogant, but it's on topic here and I think other potential /r/iamverysmart posters might benefit, so here goes: One of the problems of being intelligent is learning how to tolerate and accept boredom. I used to rebel against being bored and being ahead of the class. I would think: "this is all so eas…

I don't understand how you can be bored. I understand how dumb people can be bored; they think they know everything, and they never bother exploring. Every conversation is the same superficial baloney.

I went to a world class university, having done math a year early and winning contests.

It's very, very easy for me to find something I don't understand. There's always some course or wikipedia or something that I can't just pick up and understand. So how could I ever be bored?

You mean socially bored rather than intellectually? These days it's not that hard to find other smart people, is it?

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#103

Post by Moshe_Silnorin »

narrator wrote: post #31

Warning! /r/iamverysmart post ahead! I normally wouldn't engage in this, as it's extremely poor manners and terribly arrogant, but it's on topic here and I think other potential /r/iamverysmart posters might benefit, so here goes: One of the problems of being intelligent is learning how to tolerate and accept boredom. I used to rebel against being bored and being ahead of the class. I would think: "this is all so eas…

It's better than being a fool. I've lived my life just on the edge of being capable of an original thought. I find it kind of agonizing.

From your testimony and Throwaway's it seems most of your problems are due to externalities of other's comparative stupidity. An 8-foot tall man feels out of place in a world built for 5'10 people, through no fault of his own but also through no fault of the comparative midgets. We may have done a disservice to smart people by attaching such stigma to Mensa and other high-IQ societies. A sufficiently selective club or workplace seems like it would solve most of your problems. It also strikes me that once we can select for high-IQ alleles, it might be best to narrow the bell curve even as we raise the mean past your and Throwaway's level.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#104

Post by _yosefk »

throwaway942 wrote: post #60
_yosefk wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: if you're so smart, why not make a few tens of millions, then fill your day with whatever suits you, instead of making enough to get by and contemplating suicide?

I'm sure some people do that. That's business acumen, however, not my personal forte. Not many brilliant people ever become rich. To become rich takes not just cleverness or even genius, but the ability to convince others to invest in it and not simply fuck you over. For myself, I'm just not interested in inventions. I'm far more interested in math and geology, so I spend most of my free time just being amazed by the…

I didn't mean inventions, necessarily, just a high-paying job where you can retire early, certainly programming is like that today for a brilliant and even a somewhat less than brilliant person. I'd expect that if you loathe spending time on things you aren't inherently interested in, you might be willing to suffer through a few years of that to then never have to do it again. (This is how I thought about things at age 15, at any rate, and I'm pretty sure my intelligence wasn't nearly high enough relatively to how unimpressive my people skills were.)

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#105

Post by throw2016 »

With child prodigies often in sports, music, arts it easy to see and recognize the talent.

But 'smart' as a word out of context on its own is vague, subjective and can say many things.

How do we distinguish between 'smart' and those who may simply have a high opinion of themselves or are being pushed by parents with extra training, and the pressure itself on children of unrealistic expectations.

If you leave it vague you risk creating a whole victimhood mentality of individuals who think they are entitled but the world, schools, teachers etc has somehow conspired to deny them.

I think its important to be explicit in these discussion about terms like 'smart', their context and what is being referred to.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#106

Post by sidek »

japhyr wrote: post #15

Teachers disliked him, because they knew how easily he picked up information. I'm a teacher, and this is one of the things that frustrates me deeply about our education system. I welcome students like this; they're so much fun to work with. But I usually have to make them feel accepted before I can begin to work with them. I teach in a small alternative high school, and by the time bright students get to me, they're…

My most distinct memory of early education is my grade seven teacher yelling at me, saying that he never wanted to see me read a book in his classroom ever again. I used to read books in class after I finished whatever trivial in-class work we had... apparently, this was more annoying to him than the kids who didn't do their work and loudly talked about their drug consumption.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#107

Post by Inconel »

narrator wrote: post #31

Warning! /r/iamverysmart post ahead! I normally wouldn't engage in this, as it's extremely poor manners and terribly arrogant, but it's on topic here and I think other potential /r/iamverysmart posters might benefit, so here goes: One of the problems of being intelligent is learning how to tolerate and accept boredom. I used to rebel against being bored and being ahead of the class. I would think: "this is all so eas…

I'm curious how those like you who are extremely intelligent feel about teaching, specifically topics which are very rudimentary to you, and whether this bores you to death or provides you with any enjoyment or sense of fulfillment?

I'm a decidedly not smart person, but through some good fortune I work with some extremely smart people. I work in aerospace as a technician and many of my coworkers are Engineering/CompSci/Math/Physics people. I frequently pester them with all sorts of questions that to them must be very mundane. Unless they are really good at humoring me, which is entirely possible, I get the feeling that many of them genuinely enjoy explaining things, even when they have to dumb it down, to me.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#108

Post by Moshe_Silnorin »

throwaway942 wrote: post #60
_yosefk wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: if you're so smart, why not make a few tens of millions, then fill your day with whatever suits you, instead of making enough to get by and contemplating suicide?

I'm sure some people do that. That's business acumen, however, not my personal forte. Not many brilliant people ever become rich. To become rich takes not just cleverness or even genius, but the ability to convince others to invest in it and not simply fuck you over. For myself, I'm just not interested in inventions. I'm far more interested in math and geology, so I spend most of my free time just being amazed by the…

Satoshi did it with some mild social engineering, a mailing list, and C.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#109

Post by Moshe_Silnorin »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #94
throwaway942 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't even start with Mensa. You'd be hard pressed to find a more smug collection of assholes on this planet

Didn't get in?

I've read a bit about the disfunction of Mensa; I never gathered that they were assholes. Just that most highly-gifted people find their peers in extremely selective universities and corporations, so you get a hugely disproportionate number of beautiful losers.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#110

Post by fjdlwlv »

ryandrake wrote: post #81
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately all these 'lessons' mimic skills that will be needed by adults in the corporate world. Work in groups even when they're dysfunctional, show off and write lots of supporting documentation to get yourself promoted, and learn to tolerate seemingly arbitrary or broken management decisions.

I don't know if it's unfortunate. It's certainly by design. The societal purpose of public schooling is to prepare the future service workers and corporate drones of America to follow procedures and not get too curious. The (pre-determined) future leaders of America have their own track with private/prep schools, tutors, and Ivy League higher-ed, where the focus/purpose is, I would imagine, very different.

This is a silly myth. The privileged upper class don't get a special better-designrf education, they get a professional network that puts them in power regardless of their education. There's no special high school class that teaches "skills for becoming a CEO or a Congressperson".
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