Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

t3x.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 178 posts

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#91

Post by jazzyb »

owenversteeg wrote: post #64

Anyone else fascinated by the "window of comprehension" mentioned in the article? It's really fascinating to me. As the article says, it's the idea that "no meaningful communication is possible among people not sharing a common window of 30 IQ points." I have no idea how true it is, but it's a really interesting idea. At least in my experience it's a probabilistic thing: as people get more different in IQ communicati…

The window of comprehension is a (probably) over-generalized concept. It was first mentioned in the 1985 paper "Intelligence and personal influence in groups: Four nonlinear models" by Dean Keith Simonton with respect to "leadership". The point in question from the abstract:

> Model 4, the intellectual stratification model, expands on the fact that the mean group IQ varies across different groups and, consequently, predicts a high correlation between the group mean IQ and the IQ of its most influential member, with a leader–follower gap of between 8 and 20 points, depending on the submodel.

The theory is that one's influence over others decreases as the intelligence gap between one and others increases. Simonton theorized that this is probably due to the increase in the complexity of ideas as IQ increases.

The reason I say it is probably over-generalized in this case is because I don't think influential communication necessarily counts as "meaningful communication".

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#92

Post by giardini »

owenversteeg wrote: post #64

Anyone else fascinated by the "window of comprehension" mentioned in the article? It's really fascinating to me. As the article says, it's the idea that "no meaningful communication is possible among people not sharing a common window of 30 IQ points." I have no idea how true it is, but it's a really interesting idea. At least in my experience it's a probabilistic thing: as people get more different in IQ communicati…

I've thought the same at times but concluded that it depends on one's patience and the time and effort one is willing to devote to communication. The phrase "putting oneself in the other person's shoes" seems to best describe what's necessary. Perhaps that skill is something that, while socially very useful, IQ tests fail to measure. Heck, we can even communicate with other animals to some degree.

Aside: it appears that, rather than describing only the article's subjects' problems with very high IQ, there may be a variety of problems being expressed here by posters, varying from a very high IQ to grandiosity, ADHD, autism, indeed the full spectrum of psychological disorders plus normal behavior. It's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#93

Post by JoeAltmaier »

patcheudor wrote: post #55
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact that may be the curse of the smart kid - things come so easily they won't put in effort when it is required. They become lazy.

I think you've come upon the laziest conclusion possible. I was one of those smart 'lazy' kids & my poor performance in school wasn't in any way due to being lazy, rather it was due to not caring about school. By middle-school I'd figured out grades don't matter. My parents made too much for me to qualify for college scholarships and honestly, I didn't need scholarships anyway since money wasn't remotely an issue in…

So 'lazy' and 'not caring about school' are different? Sounds like rationalization, which middle-schoolers are very good at.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#94

Post by JoeAltmaier »

throwaway942 wrote: post #62
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right; Mensa demographic is high-IQ non-achievers. Kind of the point - a club where you can feel appreciated even though you don't find that anywhere else.

Don't even start with Mensa. You'd be hard pressed to find a more smug collection of assholes on this planet

Didn't get in?

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#95

Post by alphydan »

tdb7893 wrote: post #45
kutkloon7 wrote: post #41

I would argue that discouraging very smart or technical people is typical for Western countries, and even more typical for the US. In Asian countries, the culture is much more favourable towards the smart and technical people (and, unfortunately, also much more competitive). I always read a lot about the shortage of people in STEM fields, and teachers. The US education system is absolutely horrible. I had to explain…

Teaching has a low salary because we have too many teachers. It would be strange to pay them more when there are already way more people who want to teach than there are jobs. The only reason to pay more would be to try to get higher quality teachers but I doubt an increase in pay will really increase quality much.

> we have too many teachers

Are you really saying that doubling the number of teachers and reducing the number of students per class would not improve education? Would it not help with differentiated learning?

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#96

Post by throwaway286 »

throwaway942 wrote: post #48
narrator wrote: post #31

Warning! /r/iamverysmart post ahead! I normally wouldn't engage in this, as it's extremely poor manners and terribly arrogant, but it's on topic here and I think other potential /r/iamverysmart posters might benefit, so here goes: One of the problems of being intelligent is learning how to tolerate and accept boredom. I used to rebel against being bored and being ahead of the class. I would think: "this is all so eas…

Throwaway for obvious reasons. I do not mean this comment as a brag. Far from it. I am one of these people - I tested with an incredibly high IQ (nearly 200 at the time, though I know that fades). I graduated with a 4.2 GPA, and a 3.9 average (because on semester I chose to 'punish' my mother who was taking credit for my high grades, and got a D just to prove it) I have a very hard time with life in general. People b…

Any other coping mechanisms you use besides split attention?

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#97

Post by derimagia »

throwaway942 wrote: post #48
narrator wrote: post #31

Warning! /r/iamverysmart post ahead! I normally wouldn't engage in this, as it's extremely poor manners and terribly arrogant, but it's on topic here and I think other potential /r/iamverysmart posters might benefit, so here goes: One of the problems of being intelligent is learning how to tolerate and accept boredom. I used to rebel against being bored and being ahead of the class. I would think: "this is all so eas…

Throwaway for obvious reasons. I do not mean this comment as a brag. Far from it. I am one of these people - I tested with an incredibly high IQ (nearly 200 at the time, though I know that fades). I graduated with a 4.2 GPA, and a 3.9 average (because on semester I chose to 'punish' my mother who was taking credit for my high grades, and got a D just to prove it) I have a very hard time with life in general. People b…

I have the same issue in terms of needing to split my attention. I always have multiple computers or at least screens up doing multiple things and then at least listening to a few things in the background. It's very frustrating when I can't do that.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#99

Post by ssono »

Warning, I might not be as smart as I think I am and this may be irrelevant. I am a college student who has coasted his entire life. My father is a professor and probably the only reason I am not socially isolated. From my experience(which may or may not be relevant) being this gifted is a lot like living an RPG.

.The person you are when interacting is nothing but a character. You have to fake engagement, interest, and ability in order to have friends or you can be alone.

.You need to give your life some long term goal otherwise no work has meaning because it serves no use. However, say your goal is to cure cancer you know you have to do well in school and social to later gain access to the resources necessary for your goal. An RPG without a quest is no fun.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#100

Post by tunap »

ryandrake wrote: post #53
japhyr wrote: post #15

Teachers disliked him, because they knew how easily he picked up information. I'm a teacher, and this is one of the things that frustrates me deeply about our education system. I welcome students like this; they're so much fun to work with. But I usually have to make them feel accepted before I can begin to work with them. I teach in a small alternative high school, and by the time bright students get to me, they're…

It's not that the teachers _dislike_ him, it's that they are frustrated that he is not following the curriculum and conforming to the lesson sequence and timeframe planned for. I found US public school education was not about learning and mastery. It's about conformity and obedience. Learning the subject matter is secondary--the key to succeeding at this institution is to do things in the expected way, at the expecte…

My math teachers at two different high schools often had library passes ready for me on non-test/quiz days. All I had to do was hand in tomorrows homework assignment today. I had to do all the questions, they wouldn't tell me what cherry-picked questions would be assigned. Worked out well to have me not distracting classtime but I never got any encouragement to continue into advanced maths. My freshman college counselor told me all my prerequisites had been satisfied in HS, don't bother taking more maths. 18yo me was happy to hear it. Meh.
Post reply on HN