Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#61

Post by narrator » Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 5:54 PM UTC

throwaway942 wrote: post #48

narrator wrote: post #31

Warning! /r/iamverysmart post ahead! I normally wouldn't engage in this, as it's extremely poor manners and terribly arrogant, but it's on topic here and I think other potential /r/iamverysmart posters might benefit, so here goes: One of the problems of being intelligent is learning how to tolerate and accept boredom. I used to rebel against being bored and being ahead of the class. I would think: "this is all so eas…

Throwaway for obvious reasons. I do not mean this comment as a brag. Far from it. I am one of these people - I tested with an incredibly high IQ (nearly 200 at the time, though I know that fades). I graduated with a 4.2 GPA, and a 3.9 average (because on semester I chose to 'punish' my mother who was taking credit for my high grades, and got a D just to prove it) I have a very hard time with life in general. People b…

One fun thing that's an endless and pleasurable time sink for people who like to learn things is reading and analyzing medical studies. Just go to pubmed.com and look up anything. If you don't understand a word, just look it up on Wikipedia, and just keep going. There are millions of papers to read and you can follow those rabbit holes around forever. It's endless entertainment and fun trivia. You shouldn't bother your doctor with it as it's like talking about digital compression technology with the cable tv installer, but it's a huge corpus of very interesting knowledge nonetheless.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#62

Post by throwaway942 » Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 5:54 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #10

D-Coder wrote: post #7

The paper says, "Of course, high-IQ societies exist, but then most of their members appear to be rather successful and hence limited in their understanding of people who never achieved much, if anything, in life." Some people join high-IQ societies because they haven't achieved a lot, and any society where they share an important attribute is a place where they can fit in. And Mensa, at least, has a good deal of supp…

Right; Mensa demographic is high-IQ non-achievers. Kind of the point - a club where you can feel appreciated even though you don't find that anywhere else.

Don't even start with Mensa. You'd be hard pressed to find a more smug collection of assholes on this planet

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#63

Post by matt_wulfeck » Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 5:55 PM UTC

tonyarkles wrote: post #50

japhyr wrote: post #15

Teachers disliked him, because they knew how easily he picked up information. I'm a teacher, and this is one of the things that frustrates me deeply about our education system. I welcome students like this; they're so much fun to work with. But I usually have to make them feel accepted before I can begin to work with them. I teach in a small alternative high school, and by the time bright students get to me, they're…

I had a high school computer science instructor who did a really good job of this. I had already learned C (on DOS) by age 11 or 12, and thus the Visual Basic course in high school was pretty easy for me to do. I took the class pretty much to boost my average and have computer science credits on my transcript. Anyway, I get my first assignment back, 10/10. Awesome, just like I expected. Get my second assignment back,…

This is such a tough thing about the arbitrary grading styles of grade school. They're grading to "help you improve", not to confirm your abilities. However, as you see it very much can hinder your abilities without the right teacher! I remember many experiences where I lose faith in the teachers ability to accurately grade. It's down hill for many of us from this point without solid mentors.

This changed for me in college. I hope it got better for you as well.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#64

Post by owenversteeg » Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 5:55 PM UTC

Anyone else fascinated by the "window of comprehension" mentioned in the article? It's really fascinating to me. As the article says, it's the idea that "no meaningful communication is possible among people not sharing a common window of 30 IQ points."

I have no idea how true it is, but it's a really interesting idea. At least in my experience it's a probabilistic thing: as people get more different in IQ communication becomes harder, with a few exceptions.

What do you all think?

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#65

Post by clairity » Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 5:55 PM UTC

ap22213 wrote: post #54

ap22213 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got any resources for preschools? I've got a serious pending problem with my youngest. She's 18 months old and already on par with an average 4-5 year old (and even older in some ways). It's really freaking my wife and I out - we cannot keep up with her curiosity and motivation to learn - we just don't have time or resources. We're worried that by the time she starts school, she's going to be so far ahead that she wo…

By the way, although my wife and I are fairly intelligent, neither of us are as intelligent as our parents. For instance, my father apparently taught himself to read and write at around 2 and started to teach himself logic and algebra soon after. At 3, he wrote a math / philosophy paper detailing a complex cosmology and metaphysics in which he used logical arguments to disprove God. He never did much with his life -…

this tells me that knowing you're smart can be more of a problem than being smart with no outlet, which fits nicely into my anecdata-backed perceptions. =)

e.g., i've known smart people who have gone on to have ordinary lives and it doesn't seem to have lessened their quality of life. sure, society at large didn't get as much benefit, but individual flameouts are probably one of the reasons we don't fully optimize for maximum societal contribution.

i've also known smart people for whom knowledge of their high intelligence has not only been a burden but a hindrance to their personal success and fulfillment.

the global optimum is probably not made of a bunch of local optima methinks.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#66

Post by apeace » Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 5:56 PM UTC

owenversteeg wrote: post #64

Anyone else fascinated by the "window of comprehension" mentioned in the article? It's really fascinating to me. As the article says, it's the idea that "no meaningful communication is possible among people not sharing a common window of 30 IQ points." I have no idea how true it is, but it's a really interesting idea. At least in my experience it's a probabilistic thing: as people get more different in IQ communicati…

I also found it fascinating and enjoyed reading through the other IQ-related content on the same website: http://www.t3x.org/iq/index.html

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#67

Post by matt_wulfeck » Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 5:59 PM UTC

I'm going to put this out there. Gifted children need mentors more than they need teachers who understand their abilities. There are many things that will make them struggle in school, and without a mentor to be there with them offering advice and keeping them grounded then there's going to be the same issues popping up over and over with each new year.

What we need is a sort of Big Brother/Sister program but not for at-risk children in the traditional sense, but highly gifted children who will be lost without someone to help guide them through the problems they'll face in early life.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#68

Post by astrodust » Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 6:02 PM UTC

throwaway942 wrote: post #48

narrator wrote: post #31

Warning! /r/iamverysmart post ahead! I normally wouldn't engage in this, as it's extremely poor manners and terribly arrogant, but it's on topic here and I think other potential /r/iamverysmart posters might benefit, so here goes: One of the problems of being intelligent is learning how to tolerate and accept boredom. I used to rebel against being bored and being ahead of the class. I would think: "this is all so eas…

Throwaway for obvious reasons. I do not mean this comment as a brag. Far from it. I am one of these people - I tested with an incredibly high IQ (nearly 200 at the time, though I know that fades). I graduated with a 4.2 GPA, and a 3.9 average (because on semester I chose to 'punish' my mother who was taking credit for my high grades, and got a D just to prove it) I have a very hard time with life in general. People b…

Having an extraordinary amount of intelligence in a world full of people who don't can be extremely challenging and distressing. I'd even go so far as to call it a disability. It's very hard to understand where people are coming from, it's hard to phrase things in a way that makes you relatable and understood. It complicates a lot of things if you haven't made a deliberate effort to practice fitting in.

It's especially difficult if you have people expecting you to succeed, to make astronomical amounts of money or get perfect grades, or whatever, while you don't feel motivated to achieve these sorts of things.

It was difficult for me being isolated intellectually, that there wasn't many I could talk to about Complicated Things. A grade school math teacher is not prepared for this sort of thing. At least today there's ways of getting in touch with actual experts in the field and digging deeper into topics that used to be completely off limits.

I've learned to zen out, that it's not imperative to be productive all the time, that not every "cycle" is wasted if not doing important stuff. A little meditation to calm the avalanche of mental activity can be profoundly helpful.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#69

Post by clairity » Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 6:03 PM UTC

owenversteeg wrote: post #64

Anyone else fascinated by the "window of comprehension" mentioned in the article? It's really fascinating to me. As the article says, it's the idea that "no meaningful communication is possible among people not sharing a common window of 30 IQ points." I have no idea how true it is, but it's a really interesting idea. At least in my experience it's a probabilistic thing: as people get more different in IQ communicati…

this seems like an observation rather than a hard-and-fast rule, meaning that we can use social skills to "break" the rule. if i'm high intelligence but low on impatience, then the rule seems to be true for me, since i'll just give up on talking with low intelligence people (according to the rule). but when i'm feeling generous and patient, then i can have a lot more compassion and empathy to see the world the way the other person does without worrying about what the "intelligent" position is.

rationality (what intelligence is good for) is only one input to our decision-making, and i believe intelligent people particularly need to periodically remind themselves of that (rather than allowing supposed rules like this to short-circuit our behavior).

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#70

Post by mikeash » Sat, Dec 10, 2016, 6:04 PM UTC

NegativeLatency wrote: post #26

mikeash wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

69% of Mensa members make more than $50,000/year, and 47% of them make more than $75,000/year. I'm sure they have some non-achieving members but it doesn't look like their main demographic.

Yearly earnings is not the sole measure of success. I don't disagree with you completely, just want to make a point that you can have an unfulfilling job and still make a lot of money.

The article is talking about people who drop out of school or don't go to college in the first place, and can't hold down a job. 82% of Mensa members have a four-year degree, and their median income is above average. Their demographic is clearly not concentrated on people like this. I'm sure many of their members have unfulfilling jobs or unfulfilling lives, as is the case with many people in general, but that's a different thing entirely.

(I feel like I should clarify that I'm not a Mensa member and don't really care about the organization one way or another. I was just curious about the initial claim and looked up the basic membership demographics.)