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Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

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Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#11

I hate to sound trite, but intelligence (for which IQ is a proxy) is not only factor for success. Social skills will always be required - it seems like your two examples lacked these.

I actually think this is exactly the point. He is talking about how these people are highly intelligent but not successful because society isolates them and doesn't give them the opportunity and motivation to learn those skills in the appropriate window.

This is kind of the opposite of students that are underperforming that don't get the attention to help them keep up. Instead these are students that can overperform, but don't get the challenges, validation, and motivation - the general positive feedback - that will help them grow and succeed. Instead they are meet with disapproval and neglect since teachers both dislike them asking hard questions (thus challenging their authority among already hard to control kids) and don't have time to give them the attention they need (since they are most focused on the largest median group).

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#12
Starting to teach helped me immensely. I've learned a lot about how other people relate to the world. Just having an advanced understanding of something is useless in many situations unless you're able to communicate this understanding to other people so they can share it.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#13
I was one of those "gifted left behind" students. Majority of my family never completed high school and no one in my family went to college. High school was the bare minimum requirement to work at the local furniture factory and that is where you were expected to work after graduation (college was out of scope us simple folks).

My high school barely offered any AP courses, didn't prepare students for the SAT (I didn't know what it was) and despite having nearly a 4.0 GPA (unweighted, since I never took any AP courses) the "best" college I was told I could attend was a local nearby liberal arts school. I had no guidance on where to go to college nor any preparation.

I showed talent at an early age but there were simply no resources for me. I ended up going to a community college, had nearly a 4.0 GPA (taking mostly STEM courses) and a guidance consoler recommended I apply for a prestigious university located in the state. I told her I couldn't do that as I knew I wouldn't be accepted, told her the acceptance rate is too low. She tried to push really hard for me apply and said I would get in. I declined. Instead I went to a much lower ranked university (looking back on it I could have gotten into the initial school) and ended up doing research there. The research led to a publication but for one reason or another my GPA dropped and continue to drop each semester (had A+s, As in some courses, Ds in others). I received help from no one and had no support system.

Ended up transferring to a larger school. Started over there, GPA continued to suffer (was dealing with a lot) and graduated. Despite my low GPA I was accepted to a highly ranked graduate school and was offered a fellowship, teaching assistant ship and research assistantship, but I also received a job offer with a much higher starting salary. My family was in such need at this time I had to accept the job over graduate school.

After working in industry I developed a new interest and decided I wanted to go back into academia. At this moment in my life I'm preparing to make the switch. I enrolled in a well-ranked university taking pre-req courses in the new field and currently pulling off a 4.0 GPA. I plan to apply to graduate school shortly.

Most of my friends had more of a straight path into graduate school.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#14
post #7

The paper says, "Of course, high-IQ societies exist, but then most of their members appear to be rather successful and hence limited in their understanding of people who never achieved much, if anything, in life." Some people join high-IQ societies because they haven't achieved a lot, and any society where they share an important attribute is a place where they can fit in. And Mensa, at least, has a good deal of supp…

Right; Mensa demographic is high-IQ non-achievers. Kind of the point - a club where you can feel appreciated even though you don't find that anywhere else.

69% of Mensa members make more than $50,000/year, and 47% of them make more than $75,000/year. I'm sure they have some non-achieving members but it doesn't look like their main demographic.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#15
Teachers disliked him, because they knew how easily he picked up information.

I'm a teacher, and this is one of the things that frustrates me deeply about our education system. I welcome students like this; they're so much fun to work with. But I usually have to make them feel accepted before I can begin to work with them. I teach in a small alternative high school, and by the time bright students get to me, they're often used to being shut down for picking things up quickly and not having to do homework.

I met a really bright and interesting guy once who told me about his experience in first grade. His teacher gave everyone a math workbook, and he was really excited to be learning math. He finished the workbook in a day or two, and excitedly brought it to his teacher, expecting to be given another workbook. Instead she glared at him and said something along the lines of, "I can't believe you cheated on your math workbook in first grade!" She gave him another copy of the same workbook and told him to do start over, and that she'd be watching him. He thought to himself, "Well that sucked, but she'll watch me do it this time and know I can do it." So he did, but this time she just got mad at him and said something like, "I don't have anything else for you to do, so here's another copy of the workbook. Don't finish this so quickly."

He learned what so many bright kids learn: if you learn things too quickly and speak up, you'll just make the adults around you mad and they'll give you more meaningless work to do. I know there are many teachers who handle bright kids really well, but as a system we fail many kids. These effects last years, and often times decades.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#16
post #2

From a limited dataset: They get by. Find balance. When you ask them for a coffee, they tell you they don't have the $5 to take the subway to meet you and are very sorry for that. Some have other problems they are trying to work around, and all their energy goes to that and not inventing the next quantum equation. They drop out of being the hottest developers in the software industry, they stop being the top performe…

Author of the article here: yes, the most interesting question is, what can we do to help? The article makes some suggestions. Short version: Spread awareness, especially among professionals (medical doctors, psychiatrists, etc). I have seen lots of high-IQ/highly sensitive people who got terrible advice from psychologists and psychiatrists. Educate those professionals, so at least they don't do any damage. Also: a c…

I know at least one of these people (IQ 155).

Here is the fundamental problem she has: lower IQ people will deny the obvious even in front of their eyes.

The combined delusion of all these people literally build our world that for her appears like a cheap stupid fairy tale (specially IQ 110-120 people that try to trick lower IQ people for money (advertisement etc)).

She is surgeon and only deals with children: it keeps a lot of the low IQ people at bay. When she is not fixing children, she is riding horses. Much else is just fake to protect her from low IQ people.

These 2 poor souls physically segregated themselves from low IQ people, she did the same... to a less extreme level (accepted to pretend/lie when needed).

If she had seen a big warning sign saying "high IQ hurts", she would probably have had found help and more people to soften the terrible loneliness she experiences.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#17

I was one of those "gifted left behind" students. Majority of my family never completed high school and no one in my family went to college. High school was the bare minimum requirement to work at the local furniture factory and that is where you were expected to work after graduation (college was out of scope us simple folks). My high school barely offered any AP courses, didn't prepare students for the SAT (I didn'…

I imagine you want to keep this private so could you at least name the nearest town to where you grew up? Just trying to find out if this is in America or another country. Your story is very familiar. Unfortunately your family seems to be taking advantage of your goodwill. I know because I've experience it myself. They get into all sorts of trouble and then they expect you to drop everything and to sacrifice everything to help them. Good luck.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#18
I know of at least two other people from small towns whose IQ and life stories are similar to those shared in the article. I think high IQ individuals becoming isolated, social outcasts is more common in small towns, where accelerated curriculums and gifted and talented programs are more rare.

If you know a highly gifted child, refer them to the Davidson Academy, a free public school for the profoundly gifted. http://www.davidsonacademy.unr.edu

The Davidson academy is free to attend, and they can coordinate providing IQ-appropriate curriculum and work to the child's school for students who cannot attend in-person. Finally, there are paid, online options as well.

A friend of mine works at Davidson, and they have elementary age kids taking physics classes alongside master's degree students. When they say "profoundly gifted", it's not hyperbole.

Getting gifted kids into programs where they are surrounded by people like them can go a long ways towards helping them learn social skills. They may never be socially normal in larger society, but they can find friends, meaning, and happiness that can lead to a productive and brilliant career and life.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#19

I was one of those "gifted left behind" students. Majority of my family never completed high school and no one in my family went to college. High school was the bare minimum requirement to work at the local furniture factory and that is where you were expected to work after graduation (college was out of scope us simple folks). My high school barely offered any AP courses, didn't prepare students for the SAT (I didn'…

I imagine you want to keep this private so could you at least name the nearest town to where you grew up? Just trying to find out if this is in America or another country. Your story is very familiar. Unfortunately your family seems to be taking advantage of your goodwill. I know because I've experience it myself. They get into all sorts of trouble and then they expect you to drop everything and to sacrifice everythi…

USA.

Re: Where Do the Failed 0.1% Go? (2015) [pdf]

#20
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right; Mensa demographic is high-IQ non-achievers. Kind of the point - a club where you can feel appreciated even though you don't find that anywhere else.

69% of Mensa members make more than $50,000/year, and 47% of them make more than $75,000/year. I'm sure they have some non-achieving members but it doesn't look like their main demographic.

That sounds sort of average or even below. The Elks club probably looks like that. For the top 2% intelligent people in the world, that counts as non-achieving. Working in a bookstore or running a gas station is not what you'd expect from geniuses.
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