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De-Googleify Internet

degooglisons-internet.org

231–240 of 266 posts

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Daplie doesn't have a TOS on the Server. The TOS is established by the owner of the device, literally.

They actually changed it - when I looked at it, they had some BS about approving linking to their site. Tried finding the backup on archive.org, but it's having a difficult time with that site.

>"They actually changed it - when I looked at it, they had some BS about approving linking to their site."

How long ago did you first read about it? Was it before the Indiegogo campaign started?

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/daplie-the-cloud-system-t...

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wat? It's been years since I created my "real" Google account, so I just created "fakeasdlkvjasklfvjasdkljfgasdf@gmail.com" out of curiosity. It literally took 20 seconds, with a fake name and birthday. There are form fields for your phone number and alternate email address, but you can leave them blank.

bugmenot.com still works. Although an even better solution would be a browser plugin or add-on that, with one click, creates and logs in via a fake account populated with fake, throwaway info, changing every time you visit the site. Don't just avoid tracking, poison it. I'd help fund that kickstarter.

There's a chrome extension trying to do just that, hopefully it will ported to other browsers.

>> Kill Analytics[1] is a chrome extension that runs in the background while you use the web.

When you visit a website, it sends a little extra data to the server which breaks that site's Web Analytics. [1]: https://hello-kill.github.io/

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#233

I like the idea of this project, but I have several nits/concerns: - De-Google-ify is a poor way of marketing these ideas. Your average web user loves Google because they are trendy and make everything so convenient. - The site enumerates the pitfalls of cloud-hosted solutions and then proceeds to link to their own cloud-hosted solutions with no explanation of why they're any safer, better, etc. And not limited to th…

>The site enumerates the pitfalls of cloud-hosted solutions and then proceeds to link to their own cloud-hosted solutions with no explanation of why they're any safer, better, etc.

perhaps they don't track

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can change your perception of anything, leading you to buying stupid shit you don't need, or to voting for somebody that doesn't protect your interests. And any piece of knowledge is dangerous in the right context. This is usually felt more strongly by minorities. You're actually privileged if you're a straight, white, middle class male, but even so you can end up being harassed and hurt for who you are. Have yo…

A network of informants that feed information to a police state that harasses you based on that information is objectively horrible. I think the connection of that police state to Google tracking your search and browsing history is a bit tenuous, however. Sure, if that police state existed and I lived in it, then Google's trove of information would certainly be useful to it. If I begin to believe the state that I liv…

> If I live my life like that, I would be living as if I already lived in a police state by my own choice. That seems counter productive.

No, that is how you prevent a police state.

I mean, obviously you don't actually live as if you already lived in a police state, but you take some of the same precautions, which all boil down to keeping power distributed.

That's the whole point of democracy, really: We make our political system deliberately inefficient by making sure that the amount of power that's concentrated in any single person's hands is limited, and the only reason we do that is to limit the damage when the wrong person gets into a position of power. If there is one thing we absolutely should have learned from history by now, it is that concentrations of power are extremely dangerous.

Also, much of this is not about individuals, and it's not black and white. Authoritarian regimes don't care about most individuals. This is about power structures in a society as a whole. A dictator wants to know the top 100000 or so individuals that could be dangerous to their power in order to be able to concentrate their efforts on keeping them under control. Even if your political disinterest is no risk at all to the dictator's power position, the fact that they can tell you apart from the dissident next door helps them staying in power. And all of that is gradual, it's all an economic question in the end: How much effort does it take to prevent everyone from successfully challenging the dictator's authority? Every additional person you need in your secret police in order to maintain your power makes things harder, everything that a computer can just tell you makes it easier.

So, you have to think not from the standpoint of an individual and what someone could do to target you specifically (which usually is impractical to protect against, and is unnecessary in a stable social structure), but from the standpoint of someone trying to gain power over a large social structure (such as a dictator in a country--but really, it's not in any way tied even to political positions, it might just as well be the head of a company trying to establish themselves as a de-facto monopoly, say), and what makes it easier for them to gain and to maintain power, and what hinders them, on the scale of the society as a whole. And you have to realize that a lot of this is path-dependent: It's a lot harder to remove a dictator once they are in place than to prevent them. So, reactionary solutions don't really work. In simple terms: You can vote a dictator in, but you can not vote a dictator out.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cloud is going back to mainframes (e.g. Chromebook). Kay and 2.8MB system (Squeak). TCP/IP in 160 SLOC (Ian Piumarta). You mix Open source and Free software. Go have a real degree first (real science like physics), then maybe go back to computing. Cannot catch up with the 70s!

No one cares about Squeak anymore. We have browsers.

Average web page is > 2MB[1]

Lol... you are really clueless.

[1]: https://www.soasta.com/blog/page-bloat-average-web-page-2-mb...

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear?

I wasn't trying to say that at all. I am all for limiting the government's ability to subpoena or access data collected by companies about us. If we allow the government to use wide nets to try to catch criminals, they are going to catch innocent people, and that is bad. What I am saying is that on an individual level, the risk seems low that my using google is going to end up in a bad situation for me. It is all abo…

> I wasn't trying to say that at all. I am all for limiting the government's ability to subpoena or access data collected by companies about us. If we allow the government to use wide nets to try to catch criminals, they are going to catch innocent people, and that is bad.

I think your trust in laws is naive. A law doesn't self-enforce. The mere existence of a law does not limit de-facto power. You can not limit an entity's power by telling it that it is required to limit its own power. That might make exercising the power illegal, but it does not take away the actual power. And you don't have to look particularly far back into history to see how governments don't care about enforcing laws against themselves when that would limit their power. A lot of the things the NSA has been doing was illegal--did that stop them from doing it? No. As a matter of fact, they could eavesdrop on google's fibers, so they did, whether legal or not. If you really want to limit the power, you have to use technical measures that actually remove the power.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#238
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pinterest and Twitter really bug me. I usually hit Pinterest when doing a google image search looking for a product page to buy something. By hitting Pinterest I'm clicking through to the product page (which I would have preferred if that was my result instead), so it's not much different to me than blogspam. I really liked the idea of Pinterest and could see myself browsing and maybe eventually creating one, but the…

You can use Twitter's website to search Twitter without being logged in. Go to https://twitter.com/search

You are only proving @pfranz's point. There's no search bar, there isn't even a "Search" link on the home page.

One would be encouraged to think they are doing this on purpose.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#239

It's unlikely to happen as the vast majority of the public simply does not care . There is a deep technological disconnect. The only way to de-google-ify is to bring about mesh network that runs on our mobile devices or volunteer run nodes. Maybe you need to take the Skytrain to a remote part of the city to access specific information because there are no nodes there yet. The centralized infrastructure created betwee…

I think the public doesn't care for a good reason; no one has articulated a realistic, tangible cost to quality of life caused by letting Google track you. Lots of people talk about it being 'creepy' and dreaming up possible scenarios where it WOUDLD be costly, but for most people, the costs simply aren't actually felt. I am trying to think about it for me personally, and I can't come up with a single time that Googl…

Agreed. For me though, my biggest concern with having "everything" in a handful of providers. At least once a month, we get a story about someone having their account shutdown with no way to get ahold of customer service without creating a blog post and turning it into a news story.

Sure, a number of these show fault on both sides, but many do not. The recent article about an amazon seller adding a profile on his kid's kindle and getting his seller account suspended is an example. With google, having a google account suspended can remove access to your email, calendar, plus all of the linked "log in with google" accounts you have out there.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#240

I like the idea of this project, but I have several nits/concerns: - De-Google-ify is a poor way of marketing these ideas. Your average web user loves Google because they are trendy and make everything so convenient. - The site enumerates the pitfalls of cloud-hosted solutions and then proceeds to link to their own cloud-hosted solutions with no explanation of why they're any safer, better, etc. And not limited to th…

> Your average web user loves Google Many average users I know think Google is the Internet. 10 years ago, they thought that Internet Explorer is the Internet. They don't really care, the same way most people don't care what's the manufacturer of the bus that takes them to work every morning. They just want to get stuff done, get information they need and go on with their lives. Whether Google makes some money with t…

> Many average users I know think Google is the Internet.

yep. i mention this a lot, but it's scary how well Google has done in the education market these days. Kids (at least all of the 0-6th graders I know) equate all things Google with "the internet." They know nothing that isn't Gmail. To them, "Gmail" IS email. They know no video sites besides YouTube. They go for Google Maps. Even on mobile devices where Google is the default search engine, it still feeds you Google services before anything else. Notice how on the iPhone, you can't copy & paste an address from a web search into Maps? Nope. It opens web version of Google Maps and prompts you to download the app.

The average user is going to say, and often times because they have no idea how to leave. Google is keeping them there.

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