Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We Won’t See Hard AR Anytime Soon (2012)

blogs.valvesoftware.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–59 of 59 posts

Re: We Won’t See Hard AR Anytime Soon (2012)

#51

Post by fsloth »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #48
fsloth wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"mind blowing" in the sense that I could sculpt a life size figure in front of me with mere digital brush strokes. To produce anything like it using analogue methods (snow, clay, cardboard, wood, etc.) would have been painstaking and would have taken hours, and would have required raw materials and dedicated workspace. This is specific to Vive, with the short latency and the fact that I could walk around my sculpture…

I played with Tilt Brush a year and a half ago and while it was interesting, it didn't blow my mind.

Hmm, I tried it a few months ago. Maybe the system has evolved. Did you try it on the Vive?

May I ask, what sort of 3D modeling packages are you used to? Did you try the "paint a picture in the air" approach or did you attempt to paint 3D meshes? I went first with the "painting in the air" approach but when I realized the system was effectively a hard surface modeler as well I changed the brush width to really wide and then could just paint forms. I enjoyed the fact that I could use same speed as sketching, but could actually think and create in 3D. I could paint the anatomy of a humanoid body in air. With traditional 2D medium I have to project the 3D shape to a 2D canvas, while with most 3d modeling packages the laying out of shapes is more like meticulous mechanical engineering more than intuitive creation of forms. The tilt brush system combined the fluidity of 2d medium sketching with the pleasurable sensation of actually working in 3d form.

Packages such as zbrush and Blender's sculpt mode enable fluid sculpting - but having the capability to create continuous 3D free flowing curves with the full muscular control of my entire body was such a kick. Maybe it's just me - I don't know.

Re: We Won’t See Hard AR Anytime Soon (2012)

#52

Post by RandomOpinion »

illumin8 wrote: post #16
socmag wrote: post #2

I think it's safe to say we won't be seeing truly immersive VR any time soon either. At least any that doesn't make you want to blow chunks, or has a compelling and broad raisondetre. It's interesting to me since I've followed VR/AR for 40 years myself, and what I can say is if you look at the money and hype that have surrounded HMD's (especially in the last couple of years), the technology is still just not there, a…

"If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible, he is almost certainly right; but if he says that it is impossible, he is very probably wrong." - Arthur C. Clarke Please, keep this in mind... ;-)

"A witty saying proves nothing." --Voltaire

Re: We Won’t See Hard AR Anytime Soon (2012)

#53

Post by AndrewKemendo »

fsloth wrote: post #51
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I played with Tilt Brush a year and a half ago and while it was interesting, it didn't blow my mind.

Hmm, I tried it a few months ago. Maybe the system has evolved. Did you try it on the Vive? May I ask, what sort of 3D modeling packages are you used to? Did you try the "paint a picture in the air" approach or did you attempt to paint 3D meshes? I went first with the "painting in the air" approach but when I realized the system was effectively a hard surface modeler as well I changed the brush width to really wide a…

Yep, tried on the Vive and my experience mirrored what I've seen since. There was another paint/modeling program I played with and it was similar. I think it was Sketchfab.

I'm just not impressed with most of my VR experiences to the point that they made a real impact on my thinking. Maybe it's cause I'm an AR developer.

Re: We Won’t See Hard AR Anytime Soon (2012)

#54

Post by socmag »

Lewton wrote: post #29
socmag wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rift and Hololens. I get that there is an immediate "Wow" factor, but then I wander off and look at the real world, and think "Holy crap!". They are good, I get that... Not great but something. I don't understand the purpose though. The best virtual reality experiences I've ever had have been between the pages of a book, or induced by psychotropic substances. If they can fix the latency, resolution and FOV issues, re…

Fix what latency? Resolution and FOV, yeah. Quite a way to go. But the latency of modern headsets is imperceptible. And it really is a shame you haven't tried Vive roomscale. 9/10 people I've demoed it to all agreed that it was immersive as hell. >The best virtual reality experiences I've ever had have been [...] induced by psychotropic substances. https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comments/3nxyei/oculus_rift_f... ;)

I'll see about trying the Vive. And thanks for the other link :P

Re: We Won’t See Hard AR Anytime Soon (2012)

#55

Post by socmag »

agildehaus wrote: post #25
staticelf wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> truly immersive VR A statement like that is so subjective. What is "truly immersive"? I believe it is soon here, at least from my definition of truly immersive.

I think my Vive is immersive, with the definition that it tricks my brain into believing I'm somewhere else to the extent any technology short of a direct neural interface could. You're never going to "truly" be immersed. You feel your carpet under your feet. You feel the weight of the headset. You don't smell anything. Nothing you pick up weighs anything. The list goes on. Every item breaks "true" immersion to a cer…

Uncanny valley of immersion is specifically talking about. Which is probably okay for a lot of stuff, but personally I find it "uncanny" and disorienting.

I'll keep trying whenever I get opportunities.

Re: We Won’t See Hard AR Anytime Soon (2012)

#56

Post by socmag »

Findeton wrote: post #17
socmag wrote: post #2

I think it's safe to say we won't be seeing truly immersive VR any time soon either. At least any that doesn't make you want to blow chunks, or has a compelling and broad raisondetre. It's interesting to me since I've followed VR/AR for 40 years myself, and what I can say is if you look at the money and hype that have surrounded HMD's (especially in the last couple of years), the technology is still just not there, a…

We'll see about that. I'm working on something you might find interesting :)

Eager to here more!

Re: We Won’t See Hard AR Anytime Soon (2012)

#57

Post by fsloth »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #53
fsloth wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, I tried it a few months ago. Maybe the system has evolved. Did you try it on the Vive? May I ask, what sort of 3D modeling packages are you used to? Did you try the "paint a picture in the air" approach or did you attempt to paint 3D meshes? I went first with the "painting in the air" approach but when I realized the system was effectively a hard surface modeler as well I changed the brush width to really wide a…

Yep, tried on the Vive and my experience mirrored what I've seen since. There was another paint/modeling program I played with and it was similar. I think it was Sketchfab. I'm just not impressed with most of my VR experiences to the point that they made a real impact on my thinking. Maybe it's cause I'm an AR developer.

Ah, perhaps this is the difference. I'm not evaluating the Tiltbrush+Vive from the point of view of experience or 3D graphics but as a tool for art - I'm categorizing it among tools such as Blender, regular pen and paper, clay, etc, and not as a "transformative experience". Thus my statement "mindblowing" should be taken in same context as "mindblowingly good pen", not "a mindblowingly new view of the world".

Re: We Won’t See Hard AR Anytime Soon (2012)

#58

Post by AndrewKemendo »

fsloth wrote: post #57
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, tried on the Vive and my experience mirrored what I've seen since. There was another paint/modeling program I played with and it was similar. I think it was Sketchfab. I'm just not impressed with most of my VR experiences to the point that they made a real impact on my thinking. Maybe it's cause I'm an AR developer.

Ah, perhaps this is the difference. I'm not evaluating the Tiltbrush+Vive from the point of view of experience or 3D graphics but as a tool for art - I'm categorizing it among tools such as Blender, regular pen and paper, clay, etc, and not as a "transformative experience". Thus my statement "mindblowing" should be taken in same context as "mindblowingly good pen", not "a mindblowingly new view of the world".

Thanks for clarifying. I think that's probably true for specialists generally when they encounter a new tool. I'm always curious what a "lay person" says when they mean that.

Re: We Won’t See Hard AR Anytime Soon (2012)

#59

Post by agildehaus »

socmag wrote: post #55
agildehaus wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think my Vive is immersive, with the definition that it tricks my brain into believing I'm somewhere else to the extent any technology short of a direct neural interface could. You're never going to "truly" be immersed. You feel your carpet under your feet. You feel the weight of the headset. You don't smell anything. Nothing you pick up weighs anything. The list goes on. Every item breaks "true" immersion to a cer…

Uncanny valley of immersion is specifically talking about. Which is probably okay for a lot of stuff, but personally I find it "uncanny" and disorienting. I'll keep trying whenever I get opportunities.

If you haven't tried the Vive, try it. Room-scale is everything. Also don't do anything in VR that forces artificial movement without employing some technique to counter the nausea (Google Earth VR does this well, for instance).

It will never be true immersion. There will always be some level of unreality to it until we figure out how to plug a computer directly into our nervous system.

Post reply on HN