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Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

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Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#291

Post by efnx »

BuckRogers wrote: post #271
travi5 wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The disability program is hurting society. You can get disability for having autism. Once they are on it, they have incentives to stay on it forever. If they make even one dollar working they lose it all, so they make extra cash under the table through committing fraud, selling drugs, etc. No one can sue them and take it away, so they do things like go without insurance, buy things on credit with no intent to pay, ti…

Seconded. That stood out to me too in his post. Disability seems to be widely abused in the western world. I'm for social welfare, but I'm not for mismanagement and abuse. Disability as it exists today is a concern that needs to be addressed.

You guys have the advantage of being able to work. Your minds and bodies are healthy. Man up and take care of those less fortunate, even if it means a minority game the system.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#292

Post by mistermann »

Inconel wrote: post #223
hood_syntax wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree entirely that work is the best way to feel needed, and that feeling needed is necessary. I work because I have to, not because I care about working. If I didn't have to work, I wouldn't. I would spend time on personal projects and enjoying my life with my friends. Relationships are far better than work for "feeling needed". To be honest though, I don't care about being needed. I don't need to exist. I like…

I understand what you’re saying but I wouldn’t completely dismiss the psychological effect that a sense of feeling needed or the pride you can gain from work has on many people. The sense of being needed may not be important to you, and to be clear I make no negative judgement about that, in fact I’m glad to hear from anyone whose own self worth or happiness isn’t tied to their job as this probably leads to much rich…

I think it's great when there's perspectives from the non-typical-HN reader, it's easy to forget how exceptional most people's lives are here.

So, with that upbringing, how did you end up doing machining and precision manufacturing?

And how'd you wind up on Hacker News?

What brand of CNC machines do you work with?

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#293

Post by retube »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #183
vijayr wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't going to happen easily. My experience: I've talked about this to many people (highly educated, smart people) - most of them are adamant on the idea that human beings absolutely have to work to deserve anything, even food and water. This might very well be anecdotal, but very few people get ideas like Basic Income intuitively. It would likely take tremendous amount to first make people understand, then acce…

I honestly feel basic income is a MUST have. I so much believe in it that I WANT the automation to come, I want to see the jobs disappear, I live for the day when robots do all the physical work and a job is optional--and we can pick and choose what we work on because having a roof over our head and food on the table, and healthcare is just a given. We can be entrepreneurs, etc.. I have a ton of app ideas, but I work…

So far automation has not resulted in net fewer jobs, but more productive jobs replacing more mundane ones. That has been the story throughout human history.

I see no evidence that is going to change. Indeed "AI" has so far only created jobs, not killed them.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#294

Post by dikdik »

outericky wrote: post #270
djb_hackernews wrote: post #10

Compound that with the percentage of income 30 year olds spend on housing, education, health care and child care compared to their parents and we have a recipe for disaster.

The sense of entitlement is a lot higher these days. I grew up in a 900 sqft house with 1 bathroom. Yet all my peers (myself included) seek out homes 2x, 3x or bigger. Same with cars.... my parents bought used, reliable cars. Today we want fancy things. Growing up we had cable tv and a phone line. Probably spent $50/month total. The family cellphone bill, home broadband, various tv services easily top out over $300/m…

I hear this sentiment expressed a lot, as well as the sentiment that millennials only loaded up on education debt to fuel a 4-year party. In my experience they are both wrong in 90%+ cases and are typically used to invalidate any calls to pay more attention to growing inequality in this country.

You are probably noticing the people who go out to eat and have nice cars/nice things much more than the people that sit in their cubicle and eat their homemade lunch, etc. Probably don't pay attention to (or don't even have a clue about) the people you deal with on a day-to-day basis that rent a portion of a room (not even a whole room - eat your hearts out boomers).

Also, you are comparing your parents spending WITH A FAMILY to people who are likely single or DINKS. This is not a worthwhile comparison.

Your point with housing is semi-valid, but there are very few small homes where I'm living in southern California. I know tons of people that would jump at the chance to have a tiny house if it meant it was actually affordable.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#295

Post by madaxe_again »

rqebmm wrote: post #18

I object to the subtitle "It becomes harder to reverse this trend" like it's an inexorable march without any possible cause. Just look at the difference in context between today and the 1972 reference date for the start of the study. Globalization and automation have taken a huge chunk out of the manufacturing sector, but the US economy has by now (at an aggregate) replaced those positions with knowledge/retail/servi…

Isn't this article/this thread explicitly what we have been told not to discuss this week?

I am really confused as to what is considered political or not.

I suppose it actually means "politics we disagree with"?

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#296

Post by grzm »

madaxe_again wrote: post #295
rqebmm wrote: post #18

I object to the subtitle "It becomes harder to reverse this trend" like it's an inexorable march without any possible cause. Just look at the difference in context between today and the 1972 reference date for the start of the study. Globalization and automation have taken a huge chunk out of the manufacturing sector, but the US economy has by now (at an aggregate) replaced those positions with knowledge/retail/servi…

Isn't this article/this thread explicitly what we have been told not to discuss this week? I am really confused as to what is considered political or not. I suppose it actually means "politics we disagree with"?

The week-long experiment was terminated early. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13133855

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#297

Post by mistermann »

mattlevan wrote: post #240
ainiriand wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic income should be the solution we, as an organized group, give to all individuals to be able to express themselves. All human beings have basic needs and the State have to provide this. The State here is the expression of the will of the population. Do not take the State as something socialist or communist, taking from someone and giving it to someone for free; no,this is provided by us, the population, for us,…

This is a common argument for basic income and, even though you say "Do not take the State as something socialist or communist", your argument is the same as it is for socialism and communism. You say, "Do not take the State as something socialist or communist, taking from someone and giving it to someone for free; no, this is provided by us, the population, for us, the population." --- Here's the problem. Can you th…

You're not wrong.

> Under your proposed system in which the State provides basic income to each and every individual

> who decides how much each is given?

Hopefully economists, mathematicians, business & social services leaders. It's extremely complicated.

> Who will be the ones to actually control the means of production, and who will be the ones to actually control distribution of goods?

Will largely be decided already at that point, we're well on our way already.

As for your final question, as automation increasingly destroys jobs, there is going to be increasingly severe social unrest - only then will basic income start to be seriously discussed, and by that time many people will likely be worrying for their safety, even wealthy people.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#298

Post by sedachv »

nercht12 wrote: post #175
vijayr wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't going to happen easily. My experience: I've talked about this to many people (highly educated, smart people) - most of them are adamant on the idea that human beings absolutely have to work to deserve anything, even food and water. This might very well be anecdotal, but very few people get ideas like Basic Income intuitively. It would likely take tremendous amount to first make people understand, then acce…

People feel a natural obligation to be rewarded for their work. "Don't work, don't eat". The fact is, giving people a small income makes them inherently lazy. Lazy people don't like to work, but they will do just enough to get by, so if you give them a min amount of $, they'll do nothing. Others will look at that and say, "How come they get money for being lazy?" It actually acts as demotivation for people who would…

> The guy who isn't making much to begin with isn't rewarded - it only makes his labor less valuable.

What? How does that make any sense? The labor market is a market because supply and demand still apply.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#299

Post by dikdik »

brandonmenc wrote: post #89
was_boring wrote: post #36

What makes me upset is that the economic realities do not match what is taught in large swaths of America. We are taught (at least in my community, and I am 30 now still living within 20 miles of where I grew up) that a very achievable ideal is a middle class existence with one parent working, and a small house in the suburbs. I am in the top 1% income earners for my generation and do not even come close to this. I t…

> We are taught that a very achievable ideal is a middle class existence with one parent working I'm pushing 40 (upbringing: United States, middle class, medium-sized city) and have never, ever heard of this dream of a single-income household.

Where did you grow up?

I'm more than a decade younger than you and grew up in a single income family, lots of children, solidly middle class, and neither of my parents had beyond a high school education. My dad was a straight C student through school and neither of my parents could help me with my math homework by the time I was in junior high...so hard working people, but not book smart by any means.

Lots and lots of my school mates families were similar.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#300

Post by sean_patel »

mistermann wrote: post #290
sean_patel wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the BBC article you've linked to > There are a number of reasons why health declines after retirement, said Dave, but, mental and social stimulation are a large factor. For many people, work is where they are the most social and do the most physical activity. When that core social network is removed, health declines. Specifically, this. > For many people, work is where they are the most social and do the most ph…

They're needed by their job, and their friends, society. For a lot of people, when they retire, they don't really have anyone to talk to anymore. Maybe they don't have many personal friends. Maybe they don't have a strong marriage, or their spouse passed, or they never married. Maybe their children have moved away, and are so busy with their exciting lives, it seems they never have time for anything more than the obl…

Thank you, Sir. I will keep this in mind as I age...
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