Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#241

Post by pramit » Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 3:54 AM UTC

andrewvijay wrote: post #6

> We are not in the business of picking which issues the world should read about. We are in the business of connecting people and ideas — and matching people with the stories they find most meaningful. Our integrity depends on being inclusive of all perspectives and view points, and using ranking to connect people with the stories and sources they find the most meaningful and engaging. Simply incredible. They are ass…

I agree, totally. The echo chambers are killing humanity, one small bubble at a time.

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#242

Post by EdHominem » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 9:15 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #240

EdHominem wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why discuss a few hundred innocent (and quite a few not so innocent) black people shot by cops when we can instead discuss the tens of thousands of innocent white people harmed by blacks? Three reasons. 1) I pay officers, and they aren't doing what I pay them to do and they aren't improving the things I want improved. 2) We can discuss both. But it's pretty obvious when this presumed black violence is trotted out a…

None of your three reasons are remotely related to truth or accuracy. That's my point - the racist blog choosing to focus on blacks killing whites is not publishing fake news. They're just journalists with a different criteria for importance than you prefer. And again - I don't disagree with your criteria (1). Remember that a few years ago, the only people talking about the issue were Radly Balko and a few of his lib…

You asked "Why discuss [...] black people shot by cops".

The reason is because I can fix cop shootings, a little at least. I pay for them, etc. Also, the police are a voluntary grouping and as such, can be fixed. It'd be irrational to try to fix anyone else, even if I agreed that they needed it too, which I don't.

Then you ask "why is police shootings of black men the topic at all", as in versus police violence in general.

As a non-black victim of police violence myself, I heartily second the notion that it's not limited to a racial issue. But I can clearly see in the videos that the blacks involved in these issues are acting more politely than I would and getting treated far worse.

> read the Scott Alexander blog post I linked to which goes into the gory details.

Apples and oranges. I have issues with his statistics as well, such as discounting of entire sets of stats that individually fall below a percentage threshold, etc. Also, being involved one of these incidents that my city minimizes, I'm not entirely happy with a statistical dismissal even if it was correct.

> None of your three reasons are remotely related to truth or accuracy.

No, they are. I'm putting my attention to the topics I can solve, in the areas that are most-in-need of being fixed. I don't care if something worse is happening where I can't see it, I can only prioritize my actions.

At that, I'm happy to ride along with the #BLM group to get the broader issue solved - our employees shooting innocent people.

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#243

Post by norea-armozel » Thu, Dec 08, 2016, 2:41 PM UTC

I think the biggest issue I have with fake/spun news isn't the election but the fact that many fake news articles are used as an excuse by those who believe them for their actions. For example, I've seen all kinds of people buy into the transgender women being sexual predators in public restrooms thing. And every time a spun or fake news article alluding to such shows up they just use it as a bludgeon to say, "see your kind are sick perverts that need help." What's worse is when it's a representative or some other government official that can submit legislation or regulation on such matters. I wish there was a legal obligation for all legislators to provide evidence for their suggested laws the same way police and DAs have to do the same for their actions. Maybe then this wouldn't be a concern for me but the fact that this isn't the case means either I or someone else like me has to constantly take the role as activist to talk these idiots out of the most insane laws they can cook up on such matters. Hell, the same happens to some extent with liberals who are scared of guns, looking for any excuse to submit total bans on firearms. Anyways, this is the real problem with fake/spun news and not the current excuse of Trump's win (dude won because he pulled a smart gamble on the Rust Belt, I just wish the DNC would admit it and move to fix their strategy there).

Re: Facebook’s Walled Wonderland Is Inherently Incompatible with News

#244

Post by yummyfajitas » Thu, Dec 08, 2016, 7:12 PM UTC

EdHominem wrote: post #242

yummyfajitas wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of your three reasons are remotely related to truth or accuracy. That's my point - the racist blog choosing to focus on blacks killing whites is not publishing fake news. They're just journalists with a different criteria for importance than you prefer. And again - I don't disagree with your criteria (1). Remember that a few years ago, the only people talking about the issue were Radly Balko and a few of his lib…

You asked "Why discuss [...] black people shot by cops". The reason is because I can fix cop shootings, a little at least. I pay for them, etc. Also, the police are a voluntary grouping and as such, can be fixed. It'd be irrational to try to fix anyone else, even if I agreed that they needed it too, which I don't. Then you ask "why is police shootings of black men the topic at all", as in versus police violence in ge…

Hardly - we can fix black people committing violence against whites (or even the much larger problems of white on white and black on black violence) by directing the police to focus their attention on areas where this is a problem.

The right question to ask - assuming you believe that all lives are equally valuable - is to ask the quantitative question of what policies will save more lives. That's a question to be answered with statistics, not values. If you don't believe all lives are equally valuable, that's a difference between your values and mine.

No, they are. I'm putting my attention to the topics I can solve...

The fact that you can't solve a problem doesn't mean it's a lie or inaccurate to say that the problem exists.

And the fact that you continue to pretend it is is exactly why I'm strongly opposed to these attempts to solve "fake news". It's pretty clear that the real goal is just suppressing information that might be politically inconvenient.