Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#201

Post by xnull2guest » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 7:30 PM UTC

sctb wrote: post #196

xnull2guest wrote: post #132

My trust is broken. Am I a provably nasty actor who ... etc? My trust has been broken repeatedly, by things like the Snowden documents (and the media coverup of its contents) and Iraq War propaganda (with media participation), and yes by gamed use of scoring algorithms and selective/politicized moderation of social media. My trust was particularly broken when Facebook censored (literally did not allow me to post) Sno…

We detached this flagged subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13124666 and marked it off-topic.

sctb, for the record I feel that this removed a lot of the on-topic content I worked hard to write.

I feel as though my comments, as removed, were not uniquely off-topic, and am surprised that the parent topic is still included in the public thread.

I find this to be very unfortunate and aggravating. I had been posting about the use of moderation to censor certain ideas. I find the removal of this comment in this context ironic.

Thank you for your moderation. Do I have paths forward to have the subthread reattached?

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#202

Post by rfrank » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 7:32 PM UTC

justinlaster wrote: post #194

rfrank wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and that's why they make rules that only impact the_donald, which in turn encourages the_donald to lash out. Because they are being singled out for censorship. I think you've got a pretty selective memory of sticked threads in the_donald, but whatever. Should they be nice to a community that consistently calls it the_dipshit, etc, and whose administrators continually make changes to limit the reach of their voic…

You can stop being dishonest at anytime now. Your timeline is backwards. They were not singled out for "censorship" before their abuse. That doesn't even make sense. Again, please notice the immediate effect of having the tool taken away from the mods. Hardly anything is organically upvoted from that subreddit anymore. >Should they be nice to a community that consistently calls it the_dipshit Why are you going to pur…

You can stop being dishonest anytime now. You have a limited perspective. They had to make several internal rule changes specific to them (which they enforce) before any site wide changes happened. They get brigaded and attacked just like any other major political sub, but only they have unique rules made for them. Why are you purposefully ignoring why they act that way? It's like having a guy in the group who thinks it's acceptable to push people around because they have a majority opinion, and double down when people don't accept it. They had several posts at the top of /r/all yesterday [1-4], but I guess they don't go as high.

1. https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gvy1j/the_new_...

2. https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gwnwx/reddit_v...

3. https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gvazb/boom_tru...

4. https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gwe8n/posted_t...

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#203

Post by Terr_ » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 7:37 PM UTC

rfrank wrote: post #126

justinlaster wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I literally just addressed both of those points. Sticked posts are mod tools. They didn't do anything else. You literally pointed out exactly what I did. >It's not a global change to everybody. It's only for that one specific subreddit. Again, I already pointed this out. >Then why not apply it to every subreddit? Once again, in my reply to you: >consistent and continual abuse of those mod tools to antagonize the rest…

So not using a tool in the way that the designer intends constitutes abuse now? An interesting perspective for a community with hacker in the name.

Vote manipulation is against the rules regardless of what tool you use.

They just used stickies as their tool.

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#204

Post by james_pm » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 7:37 PM UTC

eli wrote: post #161

talmand wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I am absolutely shocked at how many simply do not get the ramifications of that simple action. In some countries you can go to jail for your post history.

I'm shocked at how many people are so upset. Maybe you should be PGP signing your posts if their integrity is your top concern.

Or use blockchain. https://steemit.com/

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#205

Post by sctb » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 7:38 PM UTC

xnull2guest wrote: post #201

sctb wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We detached this flagged subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13124666 and marked it off-topic.

sctb, for the record I feel that this removed a lot of the on-topic content I worked hard to write. I feel as though my comments, as removed, were not uniquely off-topic, and am surprised that the parent topic is still included in the public thread. I find this to be very unfortunate and aggravating. I had been posting about the use of moderation to censor certain ideas. I find the removal of this comment in this con…

Perhaps we could've detached the original parent comment, but this one was flagged by users for being overtly political, which they were asked to do this week: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13108404. We don't always snip threads in just the right place, but when the community sends us a strong signal we often go with that.

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#206

Post by pmarreck » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 7:38 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #141

pmarreck wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question- Do you think there's room for a new discussion site which embraced all these lessons that other discussion sites seem to perpetually be ignoring (perhaps due to simple entrenchment)? Because I have oft floated the idea of starting just such a site. Anyway, I somehow (as an avid Reddit user) missed the news that they lost their warrant canary (probably because I unsubbed from almost all the default s…

"Do you think there's room for a new discussion site which embraced all these lessons that other discussion sites seem to perpetually be ignoring (perhaps due to simple entrenchment)?" There's a ton of discussion sites. It's not "reddit or HN or nothing"; it's a question of which of the bajillion forums, blogs, link aggregators, email lists, or other things you're interested in joining. There's room for all kinds of…

fantastic points, and spot-on about aiming for a solid community (if small) over "the next Reddit"

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#207

Post by rm999 » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 7:40 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #84

rm999 wrote: post #30

It's pretty clear to me that Reddit has always lacked a solid experienced science-driven data person. Someone who can pinpoint an issue, formulate the issue into a product-driven concrete problem, come up with hypotheses on how to fix the problem, then use their vast wealth of data and users to test and/or implement them. It's not just the ad hoc unintuitive "solution" they came up with to mask votes (which most peop…

I absolutely fucking love Reddit's lack of "personalised content discovery". The equivalent in any other platform is awful.

> The equivalent in any other platform is awful.

I think that's absurd. When personalization is done right you probably just don't notice it. For example, Google search makes fairly heavy use of personalization (in a great way IMO), but most people don't even remember it being added ~5-10 years ago. But, if you took it away, I think it would be starkly obvious to a lot of people.

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#208

Post by rfrank » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 7:41 PM UTC

Terr_ wrote: post #203

rfrank wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So not using a tool in the way that the designer intends constitutes abuse now? An interesting perspective for a community with hacker in the name.

Vote manipulation is against the rules regardless of what tool you use. They just used stickies as their tool.

Stickying a new post so users see / vote on it faster is vote manipulation? Doesn't seem to be the case per reddit itself. [1]

1. https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205192985

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#209

Post by Terr_ » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 7:41 PM UTC

twblalock wrote: post #122

Does anyone believe the vote fuzzing ever really worked? It seems to me that people who wanted to mass upvote/downvote a post would do so despite the vote fuzzing.

I thought a large part of fuzzing and vote-detail hiding was to deny bots/users any immediate/unambiguous feedback about whether they'd been detected and had their influence secretly neutered.

Re: Reddit overhauls upvote algorithm to thwart cheaters

#210

Post by zerowellies » Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 7:41 PM UTC

ue_ wrote: post #189

zerowellies wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counter I think there are /leftypol/ users who sincerely hold Stalinst or Maoist views. Jokes are made about gulags, Holodomor and the Great Purge, just as /pol/ will joke about 9/11, the Holocaust and mass shootings. How does this make it a better place of discussion?

Because from my experience and what I have been told by users of both /pol/ and /leftypol/, people get banned less on /leftypol/ for opposing viewpoints. I also think that there is a difference between the boards in that /leftypol/ is quick to ridicule a sincere Maoist (Jason Unruhe) but I've seen that /pol/ will jump on the bandwagon of the nearest Holocaust-denier. I think that there is a lot more of a liberal and…

Interesting about people getting banned. I haven't browsed either for a while. More diverse within leftist politics, but across the political spectrum?

I don't think a forum full of edgy memes is a great place for political discussion, /pol/ or /leftypol/